Open Forum

Hello All, 

I'm the collections manager for El Retiro, a 12,000 square foot Mediterranean mansion built in 1932. One area of the barreled tile roof has a leak that has been reoccurring for years. We have had a couple different roofers due the repairs over the years. Every time they patch that area of the roof and we think the problem has been fixed, it returns during heavy rainstorms. Being in central Florida, heavy rain occurs almost daily this time of year. Senior staff has asked me to reach out to see if other historic houses have had similar issues and how you went about finding out the source of the leak. 

Unfortunately, there is no attic so we can't look at the roof from inside. The area of the roof that has the leak is where two roof lines come together if that makes a difference. As we all know, water can travel and my belief is that the leak is originating from somewhere higher than directly above where our leak is. The exterior walls of the home are 24" thick so I'm concerned about what damage may be occurring to the structure inside the walls. The leak is traveling from the roof, down into the corner of the bedroom on the second floor (opposite side of the bedroom wall is a closet in the second floor main hallway), and into the foyer below the bedroom. 

I'd love to hear from anyone who has had to have roof repairs done. How did you or your roofers go about locating the source of the leak? Did you flood the roof with a hose to try to find the leak? If so, what precautions did you take to the interior? Did you end up having to open up walls or ceilings? Basically, how did you approach the repairs? 

If you prefer not to respond within the group, I can be reached at dwelsh@boktower.org

Thank you, 

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Diana Welsh
Collections Manager
Bok Tower Gardens
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Hi Diana,

Our firm performed a Historic Building Conditions Assessment in 2002.

Here's an excerpt if it can provide any insight to your current issues:

"Description: The original barrel clay tile roof was replaced in 1985.
Condition: The roofing is in fair condition. The adjacent mature trees have formed a canopy over the house. This has caused lichen and other growths to cover many of the tiles. Further the debris from the overhanging trees leaves a blanket covering the valleys of the tiles on the southern half of the house. Between the growths and the tree debris water is trapped on the roof during heavy rains greatly enhancing the potential for leaks. After the rains the roof stays wet for extended periods of time. There are several areas of roof leaks such as the east porch (Room 106) and above Rooms 209, 214 and 218. There are numerous areas of broken roof tiles, some individual and some in groups. There are areas of deterioration at the ridge."

Paul C. Palmer, AIA Principal LEED AP, Renker Eich Parks Architects

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Paul Palmer AIA
Principal, Architect AIA LEED AP
St. Petersburg FL
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Thank you, Paul, for your response. We do have similar issue with the tree canopy and lichen growth. Our facilities team is pretty great at ensuring the gutters and drains are cleared of debris during this rainy season though. 

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Diana Welsh
Collections Manager
Bok Tower Gardens
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Original Message:
Sent: 07-02-2024 09:33 AM
From: Paul Palmer
Subject: Roof Leak

Hi Diana,

Our firm performed a Historic Building Conditions Assessment in 2002.

Here's an excerpt if it can provide any insight to your current issues:

"Description: The original barrel clay tile roof was replaced in 1985.
Condition: The roofing is in fair condition. The adjacent mature trees have formed a canopy over the house. This has caused lichen and other growths to cover many of the tiles. Further the debris from the overhanging trees leaves a blanket covering the valleys of the tiles on the southern half of the house. Between the growths and the tree debris water is trapped on the roof during heavy rains greatly enhancing the potential for leaks. After the rains the roof stays wet for extended periods of time. There are several areas of roof leaks such as the east porch (Room 106) and above Rooms 209, 214 and 218. There are numerous areas of broken roof tiles, some individual and some in groups. There are areas of deterioration at the ridge."

Paul C. Palmer, AIA Principal LEED AP, Renker Eich Parks Architects

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Paul Palmer AIA
Principal, Architect AIA LEED AP
St. Petersburg FL
------------------------------

Diana,

I'd recommend hiring a historic building restoration company to do a site visit and make recommendations (get references). (The may do a water test.) If the solution requires removing the tiles to find the leak, I would contact your insurance company to see if it falls under your coverage. If the restoration company does to the work, make sure you have at least a 1-year warranty for workmanship and more for material failure to make sure you are covered if it leaks again. (Unfortunately, patching is a temporary fix...especially if movement is involved between the buildings/connections. 

Good luck.

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Patrick Kelly
Executive Director
The Old Jail Art Center
Albany TX
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Thank you, Patrick, for your response and suggestion to check in with the insurance company. 

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Diana Welsh
Collections Manager
Bok Tower Gardens
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 07-02-2024 10:45 AM
From: Patrick Kelly
Subject: Roof Leak

Diana,

I'd recommend hiring a historic building restoration company to do a site visit and make recommendations (get references). (The may do a water test.) If the solution requires removing the tiles to find the leak, I would contact your insurance company to see if it falls under your coverage. If the restoration company does to the work, make sure you have at least a 1-year warranty for workmanship and more for material failure to make sure you are covered if it leaks again. (Unfortunately, patching is a temporary fix...especially if movement is involved between the buildings/connections. 

Good luck.

------------------------------
Patrick Kelly
Executive Director
The Old Jail Art Center
Albany TX
------------------------------

Hello Diana, there are so many things to observe when there is a leak in the ceilings, that it would seem incredible to you, first the conditions of the tiles, the conditions of the walls that protrude from the roof, if this is the case, from below if you do not have access, Using a 1/2 inch hole, a camera could be run and observe the point where the water comes out, and with a locator locate the exact point at the top, the bad thing about water is that it travels according to the slope of the roof and exit where the point is compromise, you could check the roof drains, due to the type of construction and the age it could have cast-iron drainage pipes and over time they tend to crack, you could check the seal of the roof drains, the flashing of the roof. Also check if there are any pipes, conduits or lightning cables that cross the ceiling and may have a poor seal. If you have plumbing pipe vents, or air ducts exposed to the outside, even if they have a certain angle so that the rain does not penetrate, if the rain comes with wind, it can still get into the lines and if the lines are compromised, cause a leak. I just pointing out all different equation that you might have at your end to give you some ideas where to look. I hope this can help you out in some point.

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Abel Rodriguez Dicks
Maintenance Supervisor
The Wolfsonian, Florida International University
Miami Beach FL
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Thank you, Abel, for your response. Many of the potential causes you suggested I don't believe have been thought to check. I'll be sure to forward these suggestions onto our facilities department. Have a wonderful day!

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Diana Welsh
Collections Manager
Bok Tower Gardens
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 07-02-2024 04:39 PM
From: Abel Rodriguez Dicks
Subject: Roof Leak

Hello Diana, there are so many things to observe when there is a leak in the ceilings, that it would seem incredible to you, first the conditions of the tiles, the conditions of the walls that protrude from the roof, if this is the case, from below if you do not have access, Using a 1/2 inch hole, a camera could be run and observe the point where the water comes out, and with a locator locate the exact point at the top, the bad thing about water is that it travels according to the slope of the roof and exit where the point is compromise, you could check the roof drains, due to the type of construction and the age it could have cast-iron drainage pipes and over time they tend to crack, you could check the seal of the roof drains, the flashing of the roof. Also check if there are any pipes, conduits or lightning cables that cross the ceiling and may have a poor seal. If you have plumbing pipe vents, or air ducts exposed to the outside, even if they have a certain angle so that the rain does not penetrate, if the rain comes with wind, it can still get into the lines and if the lines are compromised, cause a leak. I just pointing out all different equation that you might have at your end to give you some ideas where to look. I hope this can help you out in some point.

------------------------------
Abel Rodriguez Dicks
Maintenance Supervisor
The Wolfsonian, Florida International University
Miami Beach FL
------------------------------