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Looping Video - what mechanism?

  • 1.  Looping Video - what mechanism?

    Posted 09-14-2020 03:50 PM

    Hi all,

    We're using a lot of looping video in the museum.  We have a variety of media players that we use which all work equally well, but it seems that no matter what we do, the solid state media (SD Card, USB thumb drive, etc) gets corrupt after somewhere between 6 months and 2 years.  A couple of years seems like a pretty decent lifespan, but when you multiply it over 50 screens, we are loosing a playback device approximately every 1-2 weeks.

    What are you using with better reliability to do looping video playback?



    ------------------------------
    Mike Watson
    San Diego History Center
    San Diego, CA
    ------------------------------
    AAM Annual Meeting & MuseumExpo, Baltimore, May 16-19, 2024, click to learn more


  • 2.  RE: Looping Video - what mechanism?

    Posted 09-15-2020 08:58 AM

    I don't have an answer for you, but rather a related question, coming from a place of far less experience. We are mounting an exhibition this winter-spring of a digital video artist, and will need to purchase a few video loopers for it. Do you have a model you'd recommend? We only need them to last for a 3-month exhibition run, so don't have the issues around durability. 
    Thank you,



    ------------------------------
    Andrea Rosen
    Curator
    Fleming Museum of Art
    Burlington VT
    ------------------------------

    Original Message
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  • 3.  RE: Looping Video - what mechanism?

    Posted 09-16-2020 09:23 AM
    Hi Andrea,

    We use Brightsign players or Micca Speck G2 players (https://www.miccatron.com/micca-speck/) for looping video and audio. We have had no issues with either player. I would suggest the Micca player for you since it is for a short run exhibit and is a lot cheaper and easier to use than the Brightsign players. The Micca player is about $40 and uses either flashdrive or SD card to hold your content that you are playing. The Brightsign players start at $250 and go up to $850. We have both players running in our museum and some run 24/7 365 and have been doing so for 5 to 10 years without any major issues. We occasionally may have a file on a flashdrive or SD card get corrupted after player for a few years but we always have a back ready to swap out. Hope this helps.


    ------------------------------
    Joel Marquart
    Exhibit Operations Lead Technician
    The Franklin Institute
    Philadelphia PA
    ------------------------------

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  • 4.  RE: Looping Video - what mechanism?

    Posted 11-20-2020 10:31 AM
    Andrea,

    With a rise in digital media in exhibitions we recently purchased a couple of 75" LG smart TVs. With these we just save the media files we need to a flash drive, plug it directly into the TV and select infinite repeat on the playback settings. So far this has been a really easy and effective way for us to integrate videos, slideshows, and audio files into exhibits. We've had no issues with corrupt files and it's super user-friendly. 

    Hope this helps!


    ------------------------------
    Keri Smith
    Associate Preparator
    Fred Jones Jr. Museum of Art - University of Oklahoma
    Norman OK
    ------------------------------

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  • 5.  RE: Looping Video - what mechanism?

    Posted 11-20-2020 11:23 AM
    Nice, excellent point Keri. I'll add to that and find (it's not always easy to figure out ahead of time) a screen that has the ability to turn itself on and off. So far I've only found Samsungs and a couple off brand units (smaller screens at 10" and 12") that do this. If anyone knows of other brands that can do this please list it here!

    THEN you can just have the green run the SD card or just have your video player running 24/7 and when the TV comes on the video is already playing.

    This is a hot discussion!

    ------------------------------
    Matthew Isble
    Exhibit Designer & Founder of MuseumTrade.org
    Crocker Art Museum
    Sacramento CA
    ------------------------------

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  • 6.  RE: Looping Video - what mechanism?

    Posted 11-20-2020 11:49 AM
    Matthew,

    Thanks! It would be great to have our TV's on a timer. We've got some surge protectors with programmable timers that we used for specialty lighting, but they don't work with the TV setups. When the TV turns back on, someone has to manually start the videos again. We just leave ours running 24/7 which drives our guards crazy (they probably have every video memorized tenfold). 

    The two drawbacks that we have had with the smart TV's are consistency in volume across different videos and not being able to have timed viewings. Our curator wanted to have a set viewing schedule (e.g. video A @ 10:00am, video B @ 10:15am, ...), however we found this really difficult (nigh impossible) to do on with the automatic loop. The big pros are that the TVs are easy to program and install, can run different kinds of media all day every day without freezing or glitching, and I can synch the TV up to my smart phone and use it as a remote control. We also have a virtual reality system that can run through the TVs although COVID really rendered that useless for now. 

    I love hearing the discussion on technology in exhibits. We have been hit with more and more tech request in our designs and installs so it's great to hear how others are integrating these components into practical exhibit use.

    ------------------------------
    Keri Smith
    Associate Preparator
    Fred Jones Jr. Museum of Art - University of Oklahoma
    Norman OK
    ------------------------------

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  • 7.  RE: Looping Video - what mechanism?

    Posted 09-15-2020 10:09 AM
    Edited by Bruce Spero 09-15-2020 10:09 AM
    Mike,

    We've used Brightsign players that have routinely lasted more than 3 years on one SD card. What models/players have you had failing? Your failure rate sounds exceedingly high, based on my experience.

    ------------------------------
    Bruce Spero
    Principal/Creative Director
    Trivium Interactive
    bruce@triviuminteractive.com
    617-686-1281
    ------------------------------

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  • 8.  RE: Looping Video - what mechanism?

    Posted 09-15-2020 10:59 AM
    We mostly use Brightsign players, and I'll agree with Bruce- your failure rate is way higher than we've experienced. I believe BSs can cache the video in their RAM which would help card longevity.

    Some brands of flash memory have higher endurance than others, most of our SD cards are Sandisk and have held up pretty well.

    One trick you can use is to put the same video file multiple times on the same cards- instead of say, one 5-minute video file looping over and over again, you put 10 copies of the 5-minute video on the card, and have the player play them sequentially. This reduces the amount of reads in any one sector of the flash memory, which helps reduce the inevitable file corruption that comes from reading the same spot over and over again.

    Generally, a memory card fails from reading due to what are called "read disturb errors", where reading a bit can cause electrical noise that changes the values of bits around it. This eventually gets to the point of file corruption once the errors accumulate enough. I don't believe the card itself is damaged, only the content on it is, meaning you can wipe the card and use it again with little issue.

    ------------------------------
    Jordan Lucke
    Tech Services Senior Technician
    Museum of Flight
    Seattle WA
    ------------------------------

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  • 9.  RE: Looping Video - what mechanism?

    Posted 09-15-2020 12:45 PM
    There are two things to pay attention to:

    1) Quality of SD card.  For instance, when using Brightsigns, we always buy SD cards from them because they tend to be very high quality and vetted by Brightsigns themselves.  Cheap SD cards always give out quickly.  

    2) Length of looping content.  For atttract loops, we always copy the loop into a much longer one - For instance 10 minutes or longer.  This means that the same segment of the SD isn't being read over and over again.  This helps prevent read wear and corruption.

    ------------------------------
    Sasha Harris-Cronin
    President
    BBI Engineering
    San Francisco CA
    ------------------------------

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  • 10.  RE: Looping Video - what mechanism?

    Posted 11-19-2020 05:39 PM
    Hi Mike,
    I'll echo what folks are saying and give kudos to a technique. First the kudos, I LOVE the idea of making one longer video, say 5 versions of the same video back to back so the looping back on the card is used less. Brilliant.
    I love my Micca players. They have been running faithfully for 10+ years. I buy Sandisk, Toshiba and PNY cards, but also buy the higher bit rate cards (90 mb+). To the original question, it sounds like the issue could be cheap or base model cards? Maybe try a more premium card and see what happens. IF that doesn't solve it, maybe, just maybe, it could be the format of the video file. Try MP4 maybe? Or at least something different that you have now.
    A question back (for you Mike or anyone here), you mention that you use a variety of players. Can you list what you use and which you like best? I'm always up for testing new tech. Maybe I'll do a side by side comparison on MuseumTrade.org. I'd love to have the definitive round up so we can have one place to easily archive the research. Good Luck Mike!

    ------------------------------
    Matthew Isble
    Exhibit Designer & Founder of MuseumTrade.org
    Crocker Art Museum
    Sacramento CA
    ------------------------------

    Original Message
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  • 11.  RE: Looping Video - what mechanism?

    Posted 11-25-2020 01:03 PM
    Back when we had DVD players that played continuously, they were a lot of work for our volunteers with all the different remotes and buttons; we started looking for a solution that would be easier on them, plus be easier to update. None of the "out of the box" software we looked at would do all the things we wanted- and the sales reps all seemed annoyed that I was being so particular about our requirements, lol. We ended up getting custom software designed that controls NUCs (tiny computers) attached to monitors in several locations throughout our campus. (This was funded mostly through grants.) It is a huge improvement. Each screen has a different "show" running on it; several are touchscreens (currently unavailable due to Covid concerns) that have options for video, photo viewing, timelines. All are controlled by a program on a PC in our office; they are set to turn on & off automatically; they are easily updated; and we can add more screens as desired. They will also work even if our network is down! This has been a game changer for us. The 2 young men who created this program (based on the specs we gave them) were incredibly excited about the project, never batting an eye when I told them what we wanted; and they delivered on it.
    This was a dream solution for us! Of course, it could never have been done without the grant funding. If it's at all possible, I highly recommend it, if you want all the options as we did. If you just need photos or videos on a continuous play, there are some better suggestions for you in the replies. Good luck!

    ------------------------------
    Janeen Trevillyan
    Director
    Sedona Heritage Museum
    Sedona AZ
    ------------------------------

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  • 12.  RE: Looping Video - what mechanism?

    Posted 12-04-2020 10:20 AM

    As some others have already mentioned, we plug a USB directly into the TV and play on loop from there (certain brands will do this, certain won't...I believe we use samsung).  We have a cheap, $5 thumbstick that's been running continuously for about 7 years now, so I'm surprised to hear yours keep failing!



    ------------------------------
    Kenny Libben , Curator
    Cleo Redd Fisher Museum - Mohican Historical Society
    Loudonville OH
    ------------------------------

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  • 13.  RE: Looping Video - what mechanism?

    Posted 12-15-2020 06:15 PM
    Great comments on this thread.  As digital interactive developers we are faced with this technical glitch most often in troubleshooting.  We use BrightSign players, Micca Speck's, Eletech media players (for triggered audio) as well as some reaaaaally old Video Chameleons still in the field.  The common corruption is due to the two things mentioned by Jordan - the "overreading" of the sector of the card where the files are, and the second is "dirty power".  We see many facilities using breakers to power displays on and off.  If proper surge protection isn't on the power plugs for the players they could be wearing the cards out faster through electrical interference.

    Our recommendations for digital media players storage and setup:
    1. Use Class 10 SD/microSD cards whenever possible, they have a better data rate for read back to the player
    2. Don't use cheap cards - We use SanDisk "Industrial" grade cards.  You can get them on Amazon.
    3. Don't get a bigger card than you really need!  Running a 50MB video on a 32GB card will fatigue the card faster.
    4. Follow the advice earlier about creating multiple copies of the same video with sequential file names (for the Speck)
    5. If you're creating the video, you can also loop it in your production software and make a longer video.
    6. Use a surge protector on your playback device and displays.

    Hope that helps add to the thread!

    Kindest Regards,


    ------------------------------
    Monica Knutson
    Creative Director
    Green Bay WI
    ------------------------------

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