Open Forum

Hi all,

My museum wants to create a poster using a photograph of a loan object to sell in our store, which we actually haven't done in the past. We are an automotive museum, so it's a vehicle, not a work of art. We have high-res images that we took using a contract photographer, so we have rights to the image.

What we can't figure out is what rights exactly the lender has, with regards to creating products for the store, beyond an exhibition catalog. Our department (Curatorial/Collections) has been strongly advocating at least asking permission from them, but because the object is a car and we own the image, the situation doesn't fit a lot of copyright literature out there. I'm not sure what the legal protection is in this case. Our current loan agreement, which will be adjusted in the future, does give us general photo rights but does not mention anything commercial.

This is new territory that we will possibly be facing in the future with other loans. I know that standard loan agreements do not allow for commercial reproduction without permission, but what is the standard process for creating products for exhibitions? What should we anticipate from the lenders as far as fees or requirements?

Any input is appreciated! I have a pretty good understanding of R&R for art, but none of us are sure what the parameters are here.

Thank you!

------------------------------
Jennifer Werner
Registrar
Petersen Automotive Museum
Los Angeles CA
------------------------------

Good morning!   I am not a lawyer, but having worked with collections of objects for 40 years, I would say that your curatorial staff is correct in proceeding with getting the owner's permission to use the photograph commercially.  It may be true that you own the rights to the photograph your staff takes, but I would argue that  the owner did not give up any commercial rights to the automobile's use as part of the loan agreement.  In the end, your use of a photograph of the piece in a publication may make no difference to the owner, and if he or she provides you with approval, you can clearly proceed.  But I would definitely work this with your museum's legal counsel and be very open with the owner.

------------------------------
Dennis Mroczkowski
Board Member, Casemate Museum Foundation
Williamsburg VA
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 03-09-2017 04:05 PM
From: Jennifer Werner
Subject: Museum Store Products with Images of Loan Objects

Hi all,

My museum wants to create a poster using a photograph of a loan object to sell in our store, which we actually haven't done in the past. We are an automotive museum, so it's a vehicle, not a work of art. We have high-res images that we took using a contract photographer, so we have rights to the image.

What we can't figure out is what rights exactly the lender has, with regards to creating products for the store, beyond an exhibition catalog. Our department (Curatorial/Collections) has been strongly advocating at least asking permission from them, but because the object is a car and we own the image, the situation doesn't fit a lot of copyright literature out there. I'm not sure what the legal protection is in this case. Our current loan agreement, which will be adjusted in the future, does give us general photo rights but does not mention anything commercial.

This is new territory that we will possibly be facing in the future with other loans. I know that standard loan agreements do not allow for commercial reproduction without permission, but what is the standard process for creating products for exhibitions? What should we anticipate from the lenders as far as fees or requirements?

Any input is appreciated! I have a pretty good understanding of R&R for art, but none of us are sure what the parameters are here.

Thank you!

------------------------------
Jennifer Werner
Registrar
Petersen Automotive Museum
Los Angeles CA
------------------------------

Hello Jennifer,
Depends on the loan agreement. Typically you need a clause in the agreement from the donor allowing you to license the object to the museum for commercial purposes. It's a legal issue and some donors are reluctant to publize their collection, on the other hand some love it! You will also need their permission to use the image for exhibition or commercial purposes. 

Your curatorial staff are right and you should speak with the donor and legal counsel. 
Hope that helps
Tania

------------------------------
Tania Batley
Curator
Lefferts Historic House
Brooklyn, NY
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 03-10-2017 07:55 AM
From: Dennis Mroczkowski
Subject: Museum Store Products with Images of Loan Objects

Good morning!   I am not a lawyer, but having worked with collections of objects for 40 years, I would say that your curatorial staff is correct in proceeding with getting the owner's permission to use the photograph commercially.  It may be true that you own the rights to the photograph your staff takes, but I would argue that  the owner did not give up any commercial rights to the automobile's use as part of the loan agreement.  In the end, your use of a photograph of the piece in a publication may make no difference to the owner, and if he or she provides you with approval, you can clearly proceed.  But I would definitely work this with your museum's legal counsel and be very open with the owner.

------------------------------
Dennis Mroczkowski
Board Member, Casemate Museum Foundation
Williamsburg VA
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 03-09-2017 04:05 PM
From: Jennifer Werner
Subject: Museum Store Products with Images of Loan Objects

Hi all,

My museum wants to create a poster using a photograph of a loan object to sell in our store, which we actually haven't done in the past. We are an automotive museum, so it's a vehicle, not a work of art. We have high-res images that we took using a contract photographer, so we have rights to the image.

What we can't figure out is what rights exactly the lender has, with regards to creating products for the store, beyond an exhibition catalog. Our department (Curatorial/Collections) has been strongly advocating at least asking permission from them, but because the object is a car and we own the image, the situation doesn't fit a lot of copyright literature out there. I'm not sure what the legal protection is in this case. Our current loan agreement, which will be adjusted in the future, does give us general photo rights but does not mention anything commercial.

This is new territory that we will possibly be facing in the future with other loans. I know that standard loan agreements do not allow for commercial reproduction without permission, but what is the standard process for creating products for exhibitions? What should we anticipate from the lenders as far as fees or requirements?

Any input is appreciated! I have a pretty good understanding of R&R for art, but none of us are sure what the parameters are here.

Thank you!

------------------------------
Jennifer Werner
Registrar
Petersen Automotive Museum
Los Angeles CA
------------------------------

In agreement with the other responders, I would add even if the owner doesn't have any legal rights in this case, would you really want to jeopardize the relationship by moving forward with something so visible without at least cluing them in? I'd be just as worried about that as I would the legality of the situation. 

------------------------------
Ray Smith PhD
Director
Corita Art Center
Los Angeles CA
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 03-09-2017 04:05 PM
From: Jennifer Werner
Subject: Museum Store Products with Images of Loan Objects

Hi all,

My museum wants to create a poster using a photograph of a loan object to sell in our store, which we actually haven't done in the past. We are an automotive museum, so it's a vehicle, not a work of art. We have high-res images that we took using a contract photographer, so we have rights to the image.

What we can't figure out is what rights exactly the lender has, with regards to creating products for the store, beyond an exhibition catalog. Our department (Curatorial/Collections) has been strongly advocating at least asking permission from them, but because the object is a car and we own the image, the situation doesn't fit a lot of copyright literature out there. I'm not sure what the legal protection is in this case. Our current loan agreement, which will be adjusted in the future, does give us general photo rights but does not mention anything commercial.

This is new territory that we will possibly be facing in the future with other loans. I know that standard loan agreements do not allow for commercial reproduction without permission, but what is the standard process for creating products for exhibitions? What should we anticipate from the lenders as far as fees or requirements?

Any input is appreciated! I have a pretty good understanding of R&R for art, but none of us are sure what the parameters are here.

Thank you!

------------------------------
Jennifer Werner
Registrar
Petersen Automotive Museum
Los Angeles CA
------------------------------

I agree with the others. Typically the provisions for use of a loaned artifact for advertising an exhibit or the creation of a catalog/other products for sale that include images of the loaned piece are included in the loan agreement and transparency with your partners on something like this never a bad idea. I would want to make sure those relationships are strong and they know they can trust you. 




------------------------------
Sara Arnas
Grants Manager
Chicago Academy of Sciences and its Peggy Notebaert Nature Museum
Chicago IL
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 03-09-2017 04:05 PM
From: Jennifer Werner
Subject: Museum Store Products with Images of Loan Objects

Hi all,

My museum wants to create a poster using a photograph of a loan object to sell in our store, which we actually haven't done in the past. We are an automotive museum, so it's a vehicle, not a work of art. We have high-res images that we took using a contract photographer, so we have rights to the image.

What we can't figure out is what rights exactly the lender has, with regards to creating products for the store, beyond an exhibition catalog. Our department (Curatorial/Collections) has been strongly advocating at least asking permission from them, but because the object is a car and we own the image, the situation doesn't fit a lot of copyright literature out there. I'm not sure what the legal protection is in this case. Our current loan agreement, which will be adjusted in the future, does give us general photo rights but does not mention anything commercial.

This is new territory that we will possibly be facing in the future with other loans. I know that standard loan agreements do not allow for commercial reproduction without permission, but what is the standard process for creating products for exhibitions? What should we anticipate from the lenders as far as fees or requirements?

Any input is appreciated! I have a pretty good understanding of R&R for art, but none of us are sure what the parameters are here.

Thank you!

------------------------------
Jennifer Werner
Registrar
Petersen Automotive Museum
Los Angeles CA
------------------------------