Open Forum

Is there any place that does some type of carbon dating or other technique to tell how old a ceramic piece is?  It seems there is Rehydroxylation dating, but not sure if there is a way to send scrapings somewhere...


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David Lynx MLS
Director
Larson Gallery
Yakima WA
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In short, no, you can not carbon date ceramics. If there is residue on the inside of the piece that can potentially be dated depending on the amount and what the residue is. Is the piece historic or prehistoric? Many types of pottery have known date ranges of production so an archaeologist might be your best contact.

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Gifford Waters PhD
Florida Museum of Natural History - University of Florida
Gainesville FL
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Original Message:
Sent: 10-05-2020 04:42 PM
From: David Lynx
Subject: Ceramics dating

Is there any place that does some type of carbon dating or other technique to tell how old a ceramic piece is?  It seems there is Rehydroxylation dating, but not sure if there is a way to send scrapings somewhere...


------------------------------
David Lynx MLS
Director
Larson Gallery
Yakima WA
------------------------------

Yes, thanks I know you can't use that. I am wondering what could.  An archaeologist looked at it - but still want proof.

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David Lynx MLS
Director
Larson Gallery
Yakima WA
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 10-06-2020 06:06 AM
From: Gifford Waters
Subject: Ceramics dating

In short, no, you can not carbon date ceramics. If there is residue on the inside of the piece that can potentially be dated depending on the amount and what the residue is. Is the piece historic or prehistoric? Many types of pottery have known date ranges of production so an archaeologist might be your best contact.

------------------------------
Gifford Waters PhD
Florida Museum of Natural History - University of Florida
Gainesville FL

Original Message:
Sent: 10-05-2020 04:42 PM
From: David Lynx
Subject: Ceramics dating

Is there any place that does some type of carbon dating or other technique to tell how old a ceramic piece is?  It seems there is Rehydroxylation dating, but not sure if there is a way to send scrapings somewhere...


------------------------------
David Lynx MLS
Director
Larson Gallery
Yakima WA
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 10/5/2020 4:43:00 PM
From: David Lynx
Subject: Ceramics dating

Is there any place that does some type of carbon dating or other technique to tell how old a ceramic piece is?  It seems there is Rehydroxylation dating, but not sure if there is a way to send scrapings somewhere...


------------------------------
David Lynx MLS
Director
Larson Gallery
Yakima WA
------------------------------

That is good to know.  I think that is why places can get away with selling reproductions as real, as there is no way to date it.

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David Lynx MLS
Director
Larson Gallery
Yakima WA
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 10-06-2020 07:30 AM
From: Vivian Zoë
Subject: Ceramics dating

David - not to make a pun, but this is an age-old conundrum.  The short answer is no.  Ceramics are notoriously difficult (read impossible) to date, not only because the material is, essentially, so durable, but its environment and use can very much affect its "apparent" age.  Honest, ethical scholars and appraisers will always hedge on dating a ceramic piece.  This is especially true when the piece is from a culture (Chinese, for example) where traditional forms are repeated in very conventional dimensions and even color, etc. again and again over centuries.

Vivian F. Zoë, Director
Slater Memorial Museum
108 Crescent Street, Norwich CT 06360
860-425-5560 vox
860-885-0379 fax

"Inspiration is for amateurs - the rest of us just show up and get to work," Chuck Close, 2003

Please note:  The information contained in this email and any attachments hereto is intended only for the personal and confidential use of the designated recipients.  If the reader/recipient of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you have received this email and all attachments hereto in error and that any review, dissemination, distribution or copying of this email or any of its attachments is strictly prohibited.  If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender immediately by email and destroy the original message received.  Thank You.

Original Message:
Sent: 10/5/2020 4:43:00 PM
From: David Lynx
Subject: Ceramics dating

Is there any place that does some type of carbon dating or other technique to tell how old a ceramic piece is?  It seems there is Rehydroxylation dating, but not sure if there is a way to send scrapings somewhere...


------------------------------
David Lynx MLS
Director
Larson Gallery
Yakima WA
------------------------------

Radiocarbon dating only works on carbon.  It's mostly used these days to date charcoal found in archaeological contexts, assuming that the sample was excavated and maintained in completely sterile conditions.  And it does require a fair amount of carbon to do the test, though a lot less since the days that Penn was actively doing RC testing.
Ceramics are usually dated by 1) style or 2) Thermoluminescense dating.  There is a lab in the UK that does this.  I don't recall the size of the sample they require, but it does fall under the heading "Destructive Testing."

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Chrisso Boulis
Registrar, Records
Penn Museum - University of Pennsylvania
Philadelphia PA
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 10-05-2020 04:42 PM
From: David Lynx
Subject: Ceramics dating

Is there any place that does some type of carbon dating or other technique to tell how old a ceramic piece is?  It seems there is Rehydroxylation dating, but not sure if there is a way to send scrapings somewhere...


------------------------------
David Lynx MLS
Director
Larson Gallery
Yakima WA
------------------------------

thermoluminescence might be the way.. but I bet they have to take a large sample

------------------------------
David Lynx MLS
Director
Larson Gallery
Yakima WA
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 10-06-2020 07:32 AM
From: Chrisso Boulis
Subject: Ceramics dating

Radiocarbon dating only works on carbon.  It's mostly used these days to date charcoal found in archaeological contexts, assuming that the sample was excavated and maintained in completely sterile conditions.  And it does require a fair amount of carbon to do the test, though a lot less since the days that Penn was actively doing RC testing.
Ceramics are usually dated by 1) style or 2) Thermoluminescense dating.  There is a lab in the UK that does this.  I don't recall the size of the sample they require, but it does fall under the heading "Destructive Testing."

------------------------------
Chrisso Boulis
Registrar, Records
Penn Museum - University of Pennsylvania
Philadelphia PA

Original Message:
Sent: 10-05-2020 04:42 PM
From: David Lynx
Subject: Ceramics dating

Is there any place that does some type of carbon dating or other technique to tell how old a ceramic piece is?  It seems there is Rehydroxylation dating, but not sure if there is a way to send scrapings somewhere...


------------------------------
David Lynx MLS
Director
Larson Gallery
Yakima WA
------------------------------

Though not an expert and perhaps an objects conservator will jump in, in my reading the closest thing to relatively accurate dating of ceramics is with thermoluminescence or TL testing, and in Chinese ceramics history at least the lab considered the most reliable for TL is one in Oxford. Perhaps these generalities can help you find your way?

Joseph N Newland
Houston

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Joseph Newland
Director of Publishing
Menil Collection
Houston TX
Joseph
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 10-05-2020 04:42 PM
From: David Lynx
Subject: Ceramics dating

Is there any place that does some type of carbon dating or other technique to tell how old a ceramic piece is?  It seems there is Rehydroxylation dating, but not sure if there is a way to send scrapings somewhere...


------------------------------
David Lynx MLS
Director
Larson Gallery
Yakima WA
------------------------------

That helps thanks..

------------------------------
David Lynx MLS
Director
Larson Gallery
Yakima WA
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 10-06-2020 09:16 AM
From: Joseph Newland
Subject: Ceramics dating

Though not an expert and perhaps an objects conservator will jump in, in my reading the closest thing to relatively accurate dating of ceramics is with thermoluminescence or TL testing, and in Chinese ceramics history at least the lab considered the most reliable for TL is one in Oxford. Perhaps these generalities can help you find your way?

Joseph N Newland
Houston

------------------------------
Joseph Newland
Director of Publishing
Menil Collection
Houston TX
Joseph

Original Message:
Sent: 10-05-2020 04:42 PM
From: David Lynx
Subject: Ceramics dating

Is there any place that does some type of carbon dating or other technique to tell how old a ceramic piece is?  It seems there is Rehydroxylation dating, but not sure if there is a way to send scrapings somewhere...


------------------------------
David Lynx MLS
Director
Larson Gallery
Yakima WA
------------------------------