Open Forum

It's pretty standard to charge for the rights of reproduction, assuming your museum does indeed control the rights to the materials, so that would be step one. How did you acquire the material, did the donor have authority to give it to you free and clear, were any restrictions placed on its use, will the would-be author seek to apply copyright restrictions once the book comes out?

I'm not personally aware of any museums that negotiated a percentage of the book sales as part of the permission package, but you could certainly try asking for X number of free books to sell for your own profit.

I've also known museums that charge an hourly fee to assist with research, with wide-ranging parameters. Sometimes the fee is charged only after the first hour, or maybe only for those who do not come in person, or maybe only for those who are not members if yours is a membership-type of organization.

It would be better to have a board-approved policy in place before you get into this, which means thinking through the many kinds of research requests you have already seen or may yet receive in future. Don't try to build a policy around this one instance, which might (or might not) be more lucrative than the research the local fifth-grader needs to do for her book report.

And then there are others who take the attitude: sharing information and building new knowledge based on the objects and materials we care for is the core of our mission. If you don't charge admission now to enter the facility, what is your rationale going to be to start charging for use of the collections that results in a book?

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Deborah Smith
Consultant Belfast Maine
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Original Message:
Sent: 06-25-2017 12:21 AM
From: Deborah Patterson
Subject: Charging for research & use of photos

I work part-time for a very small privately funded museum, we have been approached by an author who wants to write a book and is looking to access our collection of photographs and documents.  Do we charge a fee or ask for a percentage of the book sales.  Many of the photographs have never been shared with the public, when they are debuted for the first time, shouldn't our museum benefit, and not just the author?  Any guidance would be appreciated.

This topic caught my attention; I'm a writer who has been allowed to view and even use photos in books without charge. Credit was always given. The photos made a big difference in terms of the quality of the book and the level of research. Nonetheless, most books published do not make great money, and even if they sell moderately well, it is the publisher who makes the large profit, if there is a large profit to be made. As for bestsellers, few art books very wind up on bestseller lists. Yet these books are important and often stay in print for many years (as opposed to a "hot" mystery or romance). Charging for research and use of photos might well make the difference as to whether a book       gets published, and in the end does not serve even the museum well. Allowing the use of the photos might be good advertising for the museum (they should not be used without attribution), and influence those who see the photos to come see the originals. I firmly believe it would serve your institution more to cooperate with the writer and make sure the photos are used well.

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Barbara Magalnick
Freelance Writer/Editor
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Original Message:
Sent: 06-25-2017 12:21 AM
From: Deborah Patterson
Subject: Charging for research & use of photos

I work part-time for a very small privately funded museum, we have been approached by an author who wants to write a book and is looking to access our collection of photographs and documents.  Do we charge a fee or ask for a percentage of the book sales.  Many of the photographs have never been shared with the public, when they are debuted for the first time, shouldn't our museum benefit, and not just the author?  Any guidance would be appreciated.

We have an extensive archives and have policies for research, reproduction and royalties.  I do think you should establish policies before you make a decision.  I'd be happy to share ours offline.  We have an obligation to maintain our collections, and research and royalty fees help us to do that.

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Susan Goganian
Director
Historic Beverly
Beverly MA
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Original Message:
Sent: 06-25-2017 12:21 AM
From: Deborah Patterson
Subject: Charging for research & use of photos

I work part-time for a very small privately funded museum, we have been approached by an author who wants to write a book and is looking to access our collection of photographs and documents.  Do we charge a fee or ask for a percentage of the book sales.  Many of the photographs have never been shared with the public, when they are debuted for the first time, shouldn't our museum benefit, and not just the author?  Any guidance would be appreciated.

Hi, Deborah -

Generally speaking (whether you're a museum or other agency/institution/rights holder--and this does assume the museum is the rights-holder), you can charge a fee (or not) to allow the author the rights for specific use, for example, the right (or license) to use the photographs in this book for [size of print run], this edition only (or editions forever, or whatever term you agree on), and other details about the book's publication (worldwide? English-only? etc.). I strongly recommend against requesting a percentage of the book sales, because that is something that has to be negotiated with the publisher. The author (assuming author is publishing traditionally, as opposed to self- or hybrid-publishing) negotiates with the publisher for a bunch of things, including royalty rates, which are not that great, and advances-against-royalty (also not that great, unless author is Extremely Well Known). The calculations for actual monies paid to the author (that is, the author's royalty payments) are a black art that no one really understands, so even if you could do percent of sales instead (which you'd have to get from the publisher, who may or may not be willing), it's going to be a misery.

In my work as writer, editor, and writing coach, cost for rights to use photographs has ranged from zero to many hundreds of dollars; for most authors, especially if we're using a lot of photos from the same source, we generally can negotiate fees that are under $100 per image (anywhere from zero to ~$50 per image, or a flat rate for a whole slew of images, for example). These are costs the author pays out of pocket, and the probability of earning big bucks from any book is pretty challenging, so yes, you want your museum to benefit, but there are lots of ways you can benefit in addition to charging a modest royalty fee (at the very least, photo credits in the book, which can be listed in a variety of ways).

It's a good idea to create some kind of standard policy, too--since it sounds like this is the first time you've dealt with licensing/royalties/permissions, this would be a good time to do that. One of the best people I've worked with for obtaining rights and permissions can probably help with identifying typical rates: Melissa Flamson, whose company is With Permission, With Permission -

With Permission		remove preview
With Permission - Melissa Flamson is a freelance permissions editor with considerable experience obtaining permission for copyrighted materials and researching copyrights. View this on With Permission >

Good luck (to both you and the author) -
Judy

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Judy Brenneman
Owner
Fort Collins CO
judyb@greenfire-creative.com
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Original Message:
Sent: 06-25-2017 12:21 AM
From: Deborah Patterson
Subject: Charging for research & use of photos

I work part-time for a very small privately funded museum, we have been approached by an author who wants to write a book and is looking to access our collection of photographs and documents.  Do we charge a fee or ask for a percentage of the book sales.  Many of the photographs have never been shared with the public, when they are debuted for the first time, shouldn't our museum benefit, and not just the author?  Any guidance would be appreciated.

I have to second what Deborah said.  The issue of copyright could matter.  Even if you would not want to charge, the copyright for the photos could be held by someone else.  If the photos are old enough and in the public domain then it would be up to your institution about costs. It think a small fee is certainly fair since most images for publication do cost a fee whether if be from a photo agency or other institution. However, it would probably be in your best interests to do your due diligence about copyright so that you are not found in any fault. I might not be likely that anyone would push the issue if the book is just a small print run but you never know.


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Rebecca Dupont
Arlington VA
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Original Message:
Sent: 06-25-2017 12:21 AM
From: Deborah Patterson
Subject: Charging for research & use of photos

I work part-time for a very small privately funded museum, we have been approached by an author who wants to write a book and is looking to access our collection of photographs and documents.  Do we charge a fee or ask for a percentage of the book sales.  Many of the photographs have never been shared with the public, when they are debuted for the first time, shouldn't our museum benefit, and not just the author?  Any guidance would be appreciated.

Thank you to everyone who has taken the time to response to my question.  We are a small Museum in the Bahamas and have never dealt with anything like this before.  I will take all of your responses to the Museum Board, as we work toward the establishment of the policies.

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Deborah A. Patterson
Curator
Wyannie Malone Historical Museum
Hope Town, Bahamas
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Original Message:
Sent: 06-26-2017 11:01 AM
From: Rebecca Dupont
Subject: Charging for research & use of photos

I have to second what Deborah said.  The issue of copyright could matter.  Even if you would not want to charge, the copyright for the photos could be held by someone else.  If the photos are old enough and in the public domain then it would be up to your institution about costs. It think a small fee is certainly fair since most images for publication do cost a fee whether if be from a photo agency or other institution. However, it would probably be in your best interests to do your due diligence about copyright so that you are not found in any fault. I might not be likely that anyone would push the issue if the book is just a small print run but you never know.


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Rebecca Dupont
Arlington VA
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Original Message:
Sent: 06-25-2017 12:21 AM
From: Deborah Patterson
Subject: Charging for research & use of photos

I work part-time for a very small privately funded museum, we have been approached by an author who wants to write a book and is looking to access our collection of photographs and documents.  Do we charge a fee or ask for a percentage of the book sales.  Many of the photographs have never been shared with the public, when they are debuted for the first time, shouldn't our museum benefit, and not just the author?  Any guidance would be appreciated.

​You are absolutely entitled to benefit from the author's use of your photos and documents, if only to help cover the cost of caring for them and makling available to researchers. Most museums have their own Photo Reproduction Policy that spells out fees for photo purchase and publication, usually on a sliding basis depending on the use, size of print run, etc.  Feel free to email me offline and I can share a copy of ours.  estewart (at) rentonwa.gov

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Elizabeth Stewart PhD
Director
Renton History Museum
Renton WA
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Original Message:
Sent: 06-25-2017 12:21 AM
From: Deborah Patterson
Subject: Charging for research & use of photos

I work part-time for a very small privately funded museum, we have been approached by an author who wants to write a book and is looking to access our collection of photographs and documents.  Do we charge a fee or ask for a percentage of the book sales.  Many of the photographs have never been shared with the public, when they are debuted for the first time, shouldn't our museum benefit, and not just the author?  Any guidance would be appreciated.

​Is the author self publishing or if they are going to use a publishing company?  If it is through a publisher than the author is getting only a small percentage of the royalties to start with, and the publishing company will be contacting you to purchase the book from them to sell in your gift shop.  I would only ask for a percentage of the royalties if the book is going to be made up entirely of your institutions photos.   But be aware unless the book hits the NYT best seller list, you might only get enough for a tank of gas...  If you charge a set fee for the photos that is an out of pocket expense for the author - the publishing company does not pay for images, but you will have your money upfront... plus if you carry the book you can also make a small percentage on the book sale as well.

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Amy Folk
Manager of Collections
Southold Historical Society
Oysterponds Historical Society
Suffolk County Historical Society

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Original Message:
Sent: 06-25-2017 12:21 AM
From: Deborah Patterson
Subject: Charging for research & use of photos

I work part-time for a very small privately funded museum, we have been approached by an author who wants to write a book and is looking to access our collection of photographs and documents.  Do we charge a fee or ask for a percentage of the book sales.  Many of the photographs have never been shared with the public, when they are debuted for the first time, shouldn't our museum benefit, and not just the author?  Any guidance would be appreciated.

Hello,

As an author and a former museum person, I understand the issues surrounding fees for using images from a collection.

If the book <g class="gr_ gr_43 gr-alert gr_spell gr_inline_cards gr_run_anim ContextualSpelling multiReplace" id="43" data-gr-id="43">centres</g> heavily on your images, then some special arrangement might be appropriate. If it doesn't, it would be wise to charge as low a fee as possible but require appropriate credit (and perhaps put some restrictions requiring the author to preserve the integrity of the image by not photoshopping it into something entirely different, etc).

Fees should be low or even non-existent. In publishing, the authors usually have to pay for the images themselves - the publishers (who operate on very close margins) normally don't - and the royalties authors get are so low in most cases that fees for even a small number of images easily can eat the entirety of an author's earnings. For the vast majority of authors' earnings are so low - especially for those who don't write as part of their jobs as professors do - that authors either find themselves out-of-pocket or end up paying themselves pennies per hour for all the trouble they take in writing a <g class="gr_ gr_55 gr-alert gr_gramm gr_inline_cards gr_run_anim Style multiReplace" id="55" data-gr-id="55">book </g><g class="gr_ gr_55 gr-alert gr_gramm gr_inline_cards gr_disable_anim_appear Style multiReplace" id="55" data-gr-id="55">.</g> Some authors will have grant funding to help pay for images, but the amounts usually are small. Print runs tend to be small. University presses in North America will print as few as 300 copies of a book, and a print-run of 2000 is high. Local history and smaller trade presses also print small runs. The big guys will do more, but they rarely have money to splash around either.

Some institutions are set up that they can provide images for free, such as the British Museum. Some charge for the cost of making an image (e.g., $25), and some add a licensing fee as well (with the licensing fee typically ranging from about $25 to hundreds).  Yet, even small fees can be a real barrier for an author if he or she needs more than a few pictures from your <g class="gr_ gr_39 gr-alert gr_spell gr_inline_cards gr_run_anim ContextualSpelling ins-del multiReplace" id="39" data-gr-id="39">museum</g> and several other institutions.

Given that museums need funding, photographic fees seem like a potential revenue source, but authors in most cases really can't afford fees of any magnitude. As well, a museum has a fundamental responsibility to provide access to its collection that usually exists for the public benefit. Spending a few minutes making a decent scan of an image and providing free or close-to-free access seems reasonable in the circumstances, while <g class="gr_ gr_46 gr-alert gr_spell gr_inline_cards gr_run_anim ContextualSpelling" id="46" data-gr-id="46">good-will</g> and bringing your museum and its collection to the attention and edification of readers is reasonable in-kind payment.

If a commercial enterprise wants to use an image, then the fee matter is completely different.  Thus, some museums have variable pricing based on how and where their images will be used (e.g., <g class="gr_ gr_45 gr-alert gr_spell gr_inline_cards gr_run_anim ContextualSpelling ins-del multiReplace" id="45" data-gr-id="45">schlarly</g>/educational vs trade publishing vs a textbook company, vs a company marketing a product; inside the book vs front cover vs size of print run).

I hope this helps.

Cheers,

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Carl Benn PhD
Professor
Ryerson University
Toronto ON
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Original Message:
Sent: 06-25-2017 12:21 AM
From: Deborah Patterson
Subject: Charging for research & use of photos

I work part-time for a very small privately funded museum, we have been approached by an author who wants to write a book and is looking to access our collection of photographs and documents.  Do we charge a fee or ask for a percentage of the book sales.  Many of the photographs have never been shared with the public, when they are debuted for the first time, shouldn't our museum benefit, and not just the author?  Any guidance would be appreciated.