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Age question

  • 1.  Age question

    Posted 08-11-2019 08:34 PM
    I am a board member of a small museum. The nominating committee recently sent a " board interest " questionnaire to members whose terms are expiring. One of the questions was your age. I know this is illegal in hiring, but is it a good idea in volunteer work?

    ------------------------------
    Sharon Bell
    Kent-Delord House Museum
    Plattsburgh NY
    ------------------------------
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  • 2.  RE: Age question

    Posted 08-12-2019 07:35 AM
    In my opinion, this is a Terrible idea.  A better idea might be asking if they are away for a long stretch of the year, and if so, what period.  I literally gasped when I read this!

    Vivian F. Zoë, Director
    Slater Memorial Museum
    108 Crescent Street, Norwich CT 06360
    860-425-5560 vox
    860-885-0379 fax

    "Inspiration is for amateurs - the rest of us just show up and get to work," Chuck Close, 2003


    Please note:  The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments hereto is intended only for the personal and confidential use of the designated recipients.  If the reader/recipient of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you have received this e-mail and all attachments hereto in error and that any review, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail or any of its attachments is strictly prohibited.  If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender immediately by e-mail and destroy the original message received.  Thank You.



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  • 3.  RE: Age question

    Posted 08-13-2019 12:08 PM
    We ask for dates of birth in order to complete a board profile.  By inputting the data, we get charts that show a mix of ages, ethnicities, etc.  We ask for the full date of birth because we update the board profile every year and need to adjust the ages.  We use a set of templates developed by the Museum Trustee Association.  This information is also useful for completing industry surveys and sometimes for grants.  We have not had any pushback from our trustees; they know why we are asking for the information.   If we were really on top of our game, we would send birthday cards to each of them every year.

    ------------------------------
    [Shan] Rankin
    Executive Director
    Museum of South Texas History
    Edinburg TX
    ------------------------------

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  • 4.  RE: Age question

    Posted 08-12-2019 08:06 AM
    Thank you for your board service. We all need more engaged board members. And we all need more diversity on our boards, including by age! This is particularly important as museums work to attract younger generations. Please see Christina Carr's excellent blog on the topic: https://www.aam-us.org/2019/07/29/welcoming-the-next-generation-of-board-leadership/. 

    As a practical matter, I would probably ask the question with age ranges rather than "how old are you?" And if your board is like many, I would make the top range pretty high - like 80+.

    Laura

    ------------------------------
    Laura Roberts
    Principal
    Roberts Consulting
    Cambridge MA
    ------------------------------

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  • 5.  RE: Age question

    Posted 08-12-2019 09:27 AM
    I still return to commitment, performance and contribution (as in the three T's) not age.  In either direction.

    Vivian F. Zoë, Director
    Slater Memorial Museum
    108 Crescent Street, Norwich CT 06360
    860-425-5560 vox
    860-885-0379 fax

    "Inspiration is for amateurs - the rest of us just show up and get to work," Chuck Close, 2003


    Please note:  The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments hereto is intended only for the personal and confidential use of the designated recipients.  If the reader/recipient of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you have received this e-mail and all attachments hereto in error and that any review, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail or any of its attachments is strictly prohibited.  If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender immediately by e-mail and destroy the original message received.  Thank You.



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  • 6.  RE: Age question

    Posted 08-15-2019 09:55 AM

    Just a minute here. Perhaps we are looking at the wrong end of this topic. It's not that we don't value our older trustees, it's that we might gain by including some younger ones. I recently had a trustee tell me that the majority of her museum board members were over sixty-five and so was the membership. She was wanting to attract some young people to their programs. Having a couple of millennials on the board might bring some fresh ideas on membership, programming, exhibits, collections, and even fund-raising. It could be that the board should  develop a matrix with factors such as age, gender, racial and ethnic background, education, background knowledge, and giving ability. The idea would be to look for a cross-section.

    Pat Miller

     

    Patricia L. Miller, Executive Director

    Illinois Heritage Association

    1216 W. Armory Ave., Champaign, IL 61821

    217-359-3781; plmxiha@gmail.com

     




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  • 7.  RE: Age question

    Posted 08-15-2019 11:00 AM
    I don't think anyone would doubt the value of having younger people on the board with fresh new ideas. That seems essential. The question is whether you should be asking people their age without some legitimate reason. As a man of a certain age, I am beginning to notice the jokes and comments about competency of older people. I guess I never noticed it before. Listen carefully and you will see what I mean. g

    ------------------------------
    George Miller
    Outreach Educator
    Buffalo Bill Center of the West
    Cody WY
    ------------------------------

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  • 8.  RE: Age question

    Posted 08-15-2019 01:27 PM

    Regarding the age of millennials, researchers and popular media generally use 1981-1995 (24-38 years old) as the markers used to define this generation. While I agree that Board members should have several years of experience after college, one can't deny that younger board members provide a different outlook and diversity to a Board. I highly recommend Malcolm Gladwell's book: "David and Goliath" to anyone looking into the value of diversity, and how breaking from tradition can provide strength. It's easy to see why there is hesitation when the topic of inviting younger generations to participate at a high governance level. However, the reality is that if institutions don't cultivate this kind of diversity in their boards and among their staff,  they will miss out in attracting new audiences and donors.

     

    Luis Cortes,

    Fort Worth Museum of Science and History

    Fort Worth, TX

     

     




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  • 9.  RE: Age question

    Posted 08-15-2019 01:55 PM
    Just to remind everyone, the original question was whether board members who are retiring from volunteering should be polled about their age. It's hard to imagine that anyone out there in museum land with a lick of sense could possibly argue that boards don't need to be diversified. Boards need to reflect the communities they serve, full stop. That said, the questioner wanted to know what Museum Junction folks felt about asking outgoing board members about their age. As she rightly points out, when you can't ask that in a job interview, why should you do it at the end of board service? I think a number of respondents have suggested it was the wrong question at the wrong time.
    Joan Baldwin

    --
    Joan H. Baldwin
    Curator of Special Collections
    The Hotchkiss School
    11 Interlaken Road
    Lakeville CT 06039
    860-435-3251






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  • 10.  RE: Age question

    Posted 08-17-2020 08:18 AM
    This week Leadership Matters directs its post to Boards and their membership, asking what they've done, and what they plan to do during the current museum crisis. https://leadershipmatters1213.wordpress.com/2020/08/17/a-post-for-museum-boards-its-time-to-step-up/

    --
    Joan H. Baldwin
    Interim Director/Edsel Ford Memorial Library
    Curator of Special Collections
    The Hotchkiss School
    11 Interlaken Road
    Lakeville CT 06039
    860-435-3251
    She/Her






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  • 11.  RE: Age question

    Posted 08-12-2019 10:18 AM
    ​Perhaps, but only if it could be demonstrated how the information is relevant to the position. If the information is to be collected, it would be best to ask respondents to place themselves in an age bracket rather than state their specific age. As above, there would need to be a clear reason why this was relevant.

    ------------------------------
    John Summers
    Manager, Heritage Services
    Faculty of Information, University of Toronto
    Toronto ON
    ------------------------------

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  • 12.  RE: Age question

    Posted 08-12-2019 10:25 AM
    No. g

    ------------------------------
    George Miller
    Outreach Educator
    Buffalo Bill Center of the West
    Cody WY
    ------------------------------

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  • 13.  RE: Age question

    Posted 08-12-2019 11:15 AM
    I'd be curious to know why the question was asked?

    Steve

    ------------------------------
    Steven Miller
    Doylestown, PA

    Executive Director Retired
    Boscobel Restoration, Inc.
    ------------------------------

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  • 14.  RE: Age question

    Posted 08-13-2019 11:02 AM
    I can't think of a good reason for asking the age of volunteers.  I also think it won't be taken well, most will view the question as "age discrimination". To me is sounds that you  have decided that anyone over a certain age is not acceptable.  Even if this is not the case no one will believe it.  

    Freda

    ------------------------------
    Freda Mindlin
    President
    Opportunity Resources Inc.
    New York NY
    ------------------------------

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  • 15.  RE: Age question

    Posted 08-12-2019 01:44 PM

    Hi Sharon, 
    From my perspective - as a Volunteer Manager - we sometimes want or need to ask questions regarding demographics. I would always like to know age-cohorts to be able to roughly plan preferences based on current research. Sometimes data might be collected to develop a baseline, assess it against the local demographics, and start diversity and equity work to match our Board complement to local demographics. That said, there are a number of ways to a) explain the reason for the data and b) ask people to opt-in to age cohorts, or race and ethnic details, without requiring it and being both respectful and diplomatic. 
    I have to ask volunteers to certify they are over 18 years of age, so I know they can sign the paperwork themselves, and then everything else is optional. 
    It's great to have data to work with, but the way we go about asking for that data can easily be misconstrued if you don't set up the question correctly!

    Paula



    ------------------------------
    Paula Allen
    Volunteer Program Coordinator
    Filoli Center
    Woodside, CA
    ------------------------------

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  • 16.  RE: Age question

    Posted 08-12-2019 01:53 PM
    I do not disagree with this at all... especially for general volunteer recruitment.  It's a great way to establish affinity groups within the corps.   This is totally different from asking existing board members (how many could there be?) their ages.  Wouldn't you know this at least within a fairly narrow bracket?

    Vivian F. Zoë, Director
    Slater Memorial Museum
    108 Crescent Street, Norwich CT 06360
    860-425-5560 vox
    860-885-0379 fax

    "Inspiration is for amateurs - the rest of us just show up and get to work," Chuck Close, 2003


    Please note:  The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments hereto is intended only for the personal and confidential use of the designated recipients.  If the reader/recipient of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you have received this e-mail and all attachments hereto in error and that any review, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail or any of its attachments is strictly prohibited.  If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender immediately by e-mail and destroy the original message received.  Thank You.



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  • 17.  RE: Age question

    Posted 08-13-2019 08:32 AM
    I'm with Steven on this. It feels as though they are not asking the question they really want or need to ask--which may also be unethical or just plain mean. As it's written it feels discomforting, and if I were a board member, I'd immediately feel as though my age is the problem or what my age symbolizes. Imagine if this weren't a question about age, but about race or gender? Isn't commitment, courage, and dedication what's important for board members? Everyone gets older. Sadly not everyone possesses the qualities we want in a board member.
    Joan Baldwin

    ------------------------------
    Joan Baldwin
    Curator-Special Collections - The Hotchkiss School
    Lakeville CT
    ------------------------------

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  • 18.  RE: Age question

    Posted 08-13-2019 08:44 AM
    Beautifully parsed!

    Vivian F. Zoë, Director
    Slater Memorial Museum
    108 Crescent Street, Norwich CT 06360
    860-425-5560 vox
    860-885-0379 fax

    "Inspiration is for amateurs - the rest of us just show up and get to work," Chuck Close, 2003


    Please note:  The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments hereto is intended only for the personal and confidential use of the designated recipients.  If the reader/recipient of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you have received this e-mail and all attachments hereto in error and that any review, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail or any of its attachments is strictly prohibited.  If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender immediately by e-mail and destroy the original message received.  Thank You.



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  • 19.  RE: Age question

    Posted 08-13-2019 09:09 AM
    It would be interesting to know if the museum received any complaints regarding this question.  Since it is a small organization nothing might have been said.  Or, everyone sort of knows the vintage of various trustees. 

    In my experience my best trustees were the longest-serving ones who, no coincidence, were older members of a board.  They were the people who understood the museum well and were devoted to helping it succeed over the long term.  What was accomplished, especially for capital campaigns, could not have been done without these loyal fans.  Unfortunately the few damaging trustees I had to deal with also fell into the longevity category.  They were very difficult to control, especially by the director.   Since the most important board dynamic is social, other board members rarely countered their "friends" disruptive behavior.  

    The idea of term limits is nice in the abstract but in application may or may not work, depending on how it is structured.  It is great if it helps get new productive and more diverse folks involved with a museum.  It may help get a bad trustee off a board.  The downside of the customary clause that people can be renominated for a board after rotating off a year does one of either two things: you loose good board members as they are immediately snapped up by other boards; or, bad ones come back on as the were parked in a committee to fulfill a governance mandate while awaiting the prescribed absence to finish.

    Interesting conversation!

    Thanks,

    Steve



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  • 20.  RE: Age question

    Posted 08-13-2019 09:24 AM
    Yes... this is, indeed, an interesting and IMPORTANT conversation.

    I my experience (approaching 40 years) the best "measure' of board performance, individually and as a group, is a skills and commitment assessment.  Skills needed by, especially small organizations, change over the life cycle of the org.  Perhaps, for example, at one time, board members were acting as docents, now not needed.  The treasurer may have also kept the books.

    It may be that this small museum needs some strategic or long-term planning.  Sometimes, this is a natural way to "encourage" the less-committed board members to step aside.

    Vivian F. Zoë, Director
    Slater Memorial Museum
    108 Crescent Street, Norwich CT 06360
    860-425-5560 vox
    860-885-0379 fax

    "Inspiration is for amateurs - the rest of us just show up and get to work," Chuck Close, 2003


    Please note:  The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments hereto is intended only for the personal and confidential use of the designated recipients.  If the reader/recipient of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you have received this e-mail and all attachments hereto in error and that any review, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail or any of its attachments is strictly prohibited.  If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender immediately by e-mail and destroy the original message received.  Thank You.



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  • 21.  RE: Age question

    Posted 08-13-2019 03:46 PM
    Hello Sharon, Since you are dealing with volunteers, in a small museum, in a not very big town, I wouldn't think it's a good idea at all to ask about age. People, especially those middle aged and over tend to see this as discriminatory, especially when those doing the asking may be younger. I think it makes more sense to ask what the volunteer can commit in terms of time and effort, and if you fear older people aren't "up to it", just ask them of they can do whatever it is you want them able bodied enough for, such as, if they can be on their feet for x amount of time, etc...and DO ask the same questions about that to those who seem young too, so it doesn't show discrimination against older folks. You'd be surprised how much older people are able to give when they want to volunteer and how capable they are, don't let the gray hair fool you.​

    ------------------------------
    Valeria Kondratiev
    The Frick Collection
    New York NY
    ------------------------------

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  • 22.  RE: Age question

    Posted 08-14-2019 04:53 PM
    Our work often asks us to reduce people to a demographic - not just age, but gender, gender identity, geographic location, cultural background, et al. I've completed many a grant report that asked for the racial breakdown of board members, so I can see the need to ask some of these questions. On the other hand, i was on a board where the very clever question of "interests & hobbies" was asked - the staff mentioned to me that it helped them identify us more as a 'psychographic' rather than assigning us to a generational type. That in turn helped them look for more diversity of interests on the board. We then talked about how we both identified in ways with other generations than our own. As people have been saying, perhaps its better to figure out what you really want to know, and then ask the right question, like "how much do you think you can donate to the museum this year?" (just kidding...). By the way, a workaround for this is background checks on your volunteers - our policy is to do them, and those forms ask for birth dates.

    ------------------------------
    Dawn Salerno
    Executive Director
    Rotch-Jones-Duff House and Garden Museum
    New Bedford MA
    ------------------------------

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  • 23.  RE: Age question

    Posted 08-14-2019 11:26 PM
    I would consult with your institution's lawyer but background checks on board members, with their knowledge, prior to their appointment seems logical to me. Direct questions about age or anything else you wouldn't ask in a job interview seems like it runs a high risk of alienating people and possibly even causing problems for the institution. I'm not a lawyer, but as a person over 40 I would feel fine about having a background check done on me but I would be put off by a direct age inquiry. It's extremely important to strive to make everyone associated with an institution feel respected and to nurture those relationships carefully. 


    ------------------------------
    Azure Attoe
    Independent Museum Professional
    Owner of Project Portland LLC
    Portland OR
    ------------------------------

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  • 24.  RE: Age question

    Posted 08-15-2019 07:34 AM
    In most cases, such personal details are kept CONFIDENTIAL by the HR office, as they should be.  It's not information that should be shared with staff or other volunteers.

    Vivian F. Zoë, Director
    Slater Memorial Museum
    108 Crescent Street, Norwich CT 06360
    860-425-5560 vox
    860-885-0379 fax

    "Inspiration is for amateurs - the rest of us just show up and get to work," Chuck Close, 2003


    Please note:  The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments hereto is intended only for the personal and confidential use of the designated recipients.  If the reader/recipient of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you have received this e-mail and all attachments hereto in error and that any review, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail or any of its attachments is strictly prohibited.  If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender immediately by e-mail and destroy the original message received.  Thank You.



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  • 25.  RE: Age question

    Posted 03-15-2020 08:05 AM
    Yes, demographics are reductive - Do board members have different purposes and motivations, just as visitors do? What would it mean to strive for a diversity of purposes among board members rather than age? Of course, a survey isn't a great way to get to an understanding of a person's purposes, so it might be necessary to rethink data collection… Interesting discussion!

    ------------------------------
    Kyle Bowen
    Principal, SuperHelpful
    Huntington, NY
    ------------------------------

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  • 26.  RE: Age question

    Posted 03-15-2020 09:29 AM
    While I agree that if a board member's interests and "needs" are being met by the experience of serving, they'll likely stay more engaged.  However, in my opinion the best question is what can they bring to the organization?  ... skills?  Training? areas of expertise?  connections to audiences and constituencies the organization wishes to reach?  time?  money?  willingness to ask for the latter?

    Vivian F. Zoë, Director
    Slater Memorial Museum
    108 Crescent Street, Norwich CT 06360
    860-425-5560 vox
    860-885-0379 fax

    "Inspiration is for amateurs - the rest of us just show up and get to work," Chuck Close, 2003


    Please note:  The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments hereto is intended only for the personal and confidential use of the designated recipients.  If the reader/recipient of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you have received this e-mail and all attachments hereto in error and that any review, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail or any of its attachments is strictly prohibited.  If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender immediately by e-mail and destroy the original message received.  Thank You.



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  • 27.  RE: Age question

    Posted 03-15-2020 11:41 AM
    Absolutely - Any and all of those ways of segmenting would be more valuable, in my view, than demographics. I tend to think demos and potential value to the organization are more common ways of viewing board members. Dawn's mention of segmenting by psychographics (or, as I'd say, purpose/goals) is maybe less common, which I find really interesting.

    ------------------------------
    Kyle Bowen
    Principal, SuperHelpful
    Huntington, NY
    ------------------------------

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  • 28.  RE: Age question

    Posted 08-15-2019 08:17 AM
    In our case it wouldn't be necessary to ask a survey question to assess the diversity of our 13 member Board. A quick glance around the table tells us all we need to know about the challenge we face in ensuring that the Board make up represents our community. We do however have a skills matrix and ask all Board members to complete a skills survey.

    ------------------------------
    Stan Divorski PhD
    Lewes Historical Society
    Lewes DE
    ------------------------------

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  • 29.  RE: Age question

    Posted 08-20-2019 11:32 AM
    Sharon,

    We often ask for birth dates or ages when recruiting volunteers, primarily because our programs have specific age requirements.  For instance, our teens must be between 13-17 years old, and adult volunteers must be at least 18.  In these cases, it's appropriate to ask for age. 

    However, if the position does not have an age requirement, then it's probably best practice to stay away from the question.  Even if it's not illegal, you don't want to give the impression of age bias or discrimination.

    That's my take on it.  I'll be interested to see responses from other perspectives.

    ------------------------------
    Paul Bishop
    Volunteer Programs Supervisor
    Space Center Houston
    Houston TX
    ------------------------------

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