Open Forum

Dear colleagues, 

Do you have a CNC miller and/or laser cutter in your institution? If yes do you find it useful? How, and for what do you use it? Which would you recommend for a medium sized children's museum? 

Any input is greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

Meredith

------------------------------
Meredith Doby
Exhibits Director
The DoSeum
San Antonio TX
------------------------------

Hi. While at my current facility we do not have a cnc machine, previously I was with a state park system managing museum exhibits, programming etc. We purchased a cnc machine for making park entrance and directional signage out of recycled plastic boards. It expanded greatly as we played with the machine and used it more, figuring out the different applications. As it was for used for signage and eventually, graphics and some exhibit elements for essentially an entire state park system it pretty much paid for itself and the person to run it in about a year and half.

That being said we used it for a very large scale operation and the amount of output to make it worth the investment was quite large. (If I remember correctly it was around 180k total back in 2008, for machine, software, computer, installation and basic training). On a scale of a museum, unless a very large operation, not sure if it would be profitable versus outsourcing. Add in the space it takes to operate (ours essentially filled up a garage bay and I would not.

Maybe a 3d printer of high quality could be just as good of an option.

Regards

------------------------------
Gene Peacock
Executive Director
Corpus Christi Museum of Science & History
Corpus Christi TX

Original Message:
Sent: 11-14-2016 04:54 PM
From: Meredith Doby
Subject: CNC Miller or Laser Cutter

Dear colleagues, 

Do you have a CNC miller and/or laser cutter in your institution? If yes do you find it useful? How, and for what do you use it? Which would you recommend for a medium sized children's museum? 

Any input is greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

Meredith

------------------------------
Meredith Doby
Exhibits Director
The DoSeum
San Antonio TX
------------------------------

Meredith,

Are you looking to use these with visitors, or back of house?  I managed a makerspace in my previous position, and the creation of items on a laser cutter/CNC might be a bit complicated for your visitors.  We found that around 10 years old was about the minimum for the visitors to grasp the concepts to create something on our laser cutter. 

Another difficulty we had was that the laser cutter had to be staffed at all times when it was in operation because of the fire hazard.  It also took a lot of cleaning/maintenance to keep it operating efficiently.  We had to purchase a camera and monitor as well, because the visitors should not look directly at what is being cut.

For your age group, if you are wanting visitors to create things, you might want to look at a vinyl cutter.  They are faster, cheaper, and have less safety hazards than the laser cutter.  We had our visitors draw out a design for a sticker, and then scanned in their drawings to create the sticker for them.  The younger visitors enjoyed this a lot!  We also used the vinyl cutter to make quite a few labels for the space.

------------------------------
Andrew McGarrahan
Museum Associate Specialist
Inside the Economy Museum
Saint Louis MO

Original Message:
Sent: 11-14-2016 04:54 PM
From: Meredith Doby
Subject: CNC Miller or Laser Cutter

Dear colleagues, 

Do you have a CNC miller and/or laser cutter in your institution? If yes do you find it useful? How, and for what do you use it? Which would you recommend for a medium sized children's museum? 

Any input is greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

Meredith

------------------------------
Meredith Doby
Exhibits Director
The DoSeum
San Antonio TX
------------------------------

Thanks for the feedback. Yes I was asking about its usage in the back of house, so used by staff to create exhibit and signage elements.

------------------------------
Meredith Doby
Exhibits Director
The DoSeum
San Antonio TX

Original Message:
Sent: 11-15-2016 10:32 AM
From: Andrew McGarrahan
Subject: CNC Miller or Laser Cutter

Meredith,

Are you looking to use these with visitors, or back of house?  I managed a makerspace in my previous position, and the creation of items on a laser cutter/CNC might be a bit complicated for your visitors.  We found that around 10 years old was about the minimum for the visitors to grasp the concepts to create something on our laser cutter. 

Another difficulty we had was that the laser cutter had to be staffed at all times when it was in operation because of the fire hazard.  It also took a lot of cleaning/maintenance to keep it operating efficiently.  We had to purchase a camera and monitor as well, because the visitors should not look directly at what is being cut.

For your age group, if you are wanting visitors to create things, you might want to look at a vinyl cutter.  They are faster, cheaper, and have less safety hazards than the laser cutter.  We had our visitors draw out a design for a sticker, and then scanned in their drawings to create the sticker for them.  The younger visitors enjoyed this a lot!  We also used the vinyl cutter to make quite a few labels for the space.

------------------------------
Andrew McGarrahan
Museum Associate Specialist
Inside the Economy Museum
Saint Louis MO

Original Message:
Sent: 11-14-2016 04:54 PM
From: Meredith Doby
Subject: CNC Miller or Laser Cutter

Dear colleagues, 

Do you have a CNC miller and/or laser cutter in your institution? If yes do you find it useful? How, and for what do you use it? Which would you recommend for a medium sized children's museum? 

Any input is greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

Meredith

------------------------------
Meredith Doby
Exhibits Director
The DoSeum
San Antonio TX
------------------------------

Hi Meredith!

FYI, When I lived in San Antonio, I used Regal Plastics to do CNC routing jobs, as well as a freelance Australian fellow who was a little crazy but did great work. I can probably find his name, if you're interested. But there must be a few more CNC routers around town than when I moved away four years ago. Sign makers and large format printers do the kind of work that justifies purchasing one.

I've wanted to buy one for 15 years but have not. The cost of a worthwhile commercial machine is quite high (plus, factor in maintenance and supplies — it's a technical machine), and as much as I would use it (A LOT), it would need to be running at least weekly to justify its cost and upkeep, and the amount of space it would take up. My company is a member of a maker space now which gives us access to a lot of expensive tools, including a Shopbot :). But because of the shape of our projects, we use it intensely for a few weeks, and then ignore it for a couple months. If it were in my shop, it would become an expensive workbench for much of the time!

Laser cutter, likewise, in many regards...except one can sit on a desktop. The Epilogs at our maker space seem to require less maintenance than the ShopBot.

But, dang, both are fun tools to have. If for no other reason, to be able to cut perfect circles at the click of a button!

--Jason

------------------------------
Jason Jay Stevens
Exhibit Designer/Principal
Flutter & Wow Museum Projects
Ann Arbor MI

Original Message:
Sent: 11-15-2016 01:53 PM
From: Meredith Doby
Subject: CNC Miller or Laser Cutter

Thanks for the feedback. Yes I was asking about its usage in the back of house, so used by staff to create exhibit and signage elements.

------------------------------
Meredith Doby
Exhibits Director
The DoSeum
San Antonio TX

Original Message:
Sent: 11-15-2016 10:32 AM
From: Andrew McGarrahan
Subject: CNC Miller or Laser Cutter

Meredith,

Are you looking to use these with visitors, or back of house?  I managed a makerspace in my previous position, and the creation of items on a laser cutter/CNC might be a bit complicated for your visitors.  We found that around 10 years old was about the minimum for the visitors to grasp the concepts to create something on our laser cutter. 

Another difficulty we had was that the laser cutter had to be staffed at all times when it was in operation because of the fire hazard.  It also took a lot of cleaning/maintenance to keep it operating efficiently.  We had to purchase a camera and monitor as well, because the visitors should not look directly at what is being cut.

For your age group, if you are wanting visitors to create things, you might want to look at a vinyl cutter.  They are faster, cheaper, and have less safety hazards than the laser cutter.  We had our visitors draw out a design for a sticker, and then scanned in their drawings to create the sticker for them.  The younger visitors enjoyed this a lot!  We also used the vinyl cutter to make quite a few labels for the space.

------------------------------
Andrew McGarrahan
Museum Associate Specialist
Inside the Economy Museum
Saint Louis MO

Original Message:
Sent: 11-14-2016 04:54 PM
From: Meredith Doby
Subject: CNC Miller or Laser Cutter

Dear colleagues, 

Do you have a CNC miller and/or laser cutter in your institution? If yes do you find it useful? How, and for what do you use it? Which would you recommend for a medium sized children's museum? 

Any input is greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

Meredith

------------------------------
Meredith Doby
Exhibits Director
The DoSeum
San Antonio TX
------------------------------

Hello,

We have done outreach programs with Boys and Girls clubs, high school robotics teams, and more and what I have learned is attention spans are very short! You can buy a relatively user-friendly mill from Tormach (we have one, she has been working on our team for almost 8 years now, excellent machines for under $10K). You need to know at least the basics of machining or hire a friendly machinist. Lasers are notoriously difficult to keep maintained (one spec of dust and the optics can get fried just enough to damage the whole system). I think, if you are going for WOW factor and inspiring creativity I would go with a 3D printer. Much easier to use, less dangerous than a mill, most are more durable than a laser. We have 2 printers running full time in-house, an Airwolf HDX (FDM technology most kids will have seen) and a Formlabs SLA printer. The trick with 3D printing for an audience is to have finished prints to show and at least one printer running. Like a baking show. Printing takes hours, not minutes.

For what it's worth ;)

Cheers

------------------------------
Josh Gray
President, Custom Entertainment Solutions, Inc.
Affordable animatronics made in USA
www.customentsolutions.com

Original Message:
Sent: 11-14-2016 04:54 PM
From: Meredith Doby
Subject: CNC Miller or Laser Cutter

Dear colleagues, 

Do you have a CNC miller and/or laser cutter in your institution? If yes do you find it useful? How, and for what do you use it? Which would you recommend for a medium sized children's museum? 

Any input is greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

Meredith

------------------------------
Meredith Doby
Exhibits Director
The DoSeum
San Antonio TX
------------------------------

We have a Fab Lab at our museum as well as a mobile unit and we have four laser cutters, five 3D printers, 2 full sized ShopBots (CNC routers), 2 small mills (we use for electronics), and 2 vinyl cutters.  We do programming with all of them, but my favorite is the laser cutter.  It is quick to use, easy to design for, and low maintenance.  We use it a lot more than our 3D printers because we can get kids in to design and build something (16 at a time) in about 60-90 minutes.

Anyway, last week I invited a guest presenter from ShopBot to speak to work with local educators during a 2-day PD.  She brought in a Handibot, which is basically a mini ShopBot- you pick it up and put it on the material, and it has a safety shield, so no need for safety goggles.  It also runs off on an iPad!  It costs $2900, and I am definitely buying one to extend our mobile programming (circuit boards, drone chassis, etc.)

https://store.handibot.com/products/handibot-smart-power-tool-adventure-edition

Handibot		remove preview
View this on Handibot >

------------------------------
Liz Whitewolf
Fab Lab Technical and Education Manager
Carnegie Science Center
Pittsburgh PA

Original Message:
Sent: 11-18-2016 02:08 PM
From: Josh Gray
Subject: CNC Miller or Laser Cutter

Hello,

We have done outreach programs with Boys and Girls clubs, high school robotics teams, and more and what I have learned is attention spans are very short! You can buy a relatively user-friendly mill from Tormach (we have one, she has been working on our team for almost 8 years now, excellent machines for under $10K). You need to know at least the basics of machining or hire a friendly machinist. Lasers are notoriously difficult to keep maintained (one spec of dust and the optics can get fried just enough to damage the whole system). I think, if you are going for WOW factor and inspiring creativity I would go with a 3D printer. Much easier to use, less dangerous than a mill, most are more durable than a laser. We have 2 printers running full time in-house, an Airwolf HDX (FDM technology most kids will have seen) and a Formlabs SLA printer. The trick with 3D printing for an audience is to have finished prints to show and at least one printer running. Like a baking show. Printing takes hours, not minutes.

For what it's worth ;)

Cheers

------------------------------
Josh Gray
President, Custom Entertainment Solutions, Inc.
Affordable animatronics made in USA
www.customentsolutions.com

Original Message:
Sent: 11-14-2016 04:54 PM
From: Meredith Doby
Subject: CNC Miller or Laser Cutter

Dear colleagues, 

Do you have a CNC miller and/or laser cutter in your institution? If yes do you find it useful? How, and for what do you use it? Which would you recommend for a medium sized children's museum? 

Any input is greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

Meredith

------------------------------
Meredith Doby
Exhibits Director
The DoSeum
San Antonio TX
------------------------------

Meredith,

All the machines everyone has suggested are great machines.  We have over 30 machines of various types in our museum fab lab and have been using them for over 7 years, here is what we have found we like or would switch to for high throughput hands on experiences in design and making for all ages in hour long workshops for 15 to 30 people (depending on staff available to help and number of machines we have).

We have learned for highest throughput (up to 15 people per hour) I highly recommend an epilog laser cutter or two of any size.  We have two and we can handle up to 30 people in a one hour workshop.  But this is pretty expensive.

Epilog Laser Engraving and Cutting Systems - Etching, Cutting and Marking Machines

Epiloglaser		remove preview
Epilog Laser Engraving and Cutting Systems - Etching, Cutting and Marking Machines Epilog Laser engraving equipment for etching, cutting, and marking systems - affordable, easy-to-use, and versatile. View this on Epiloglaser >

For lowest cost and a chance for each person to have hands on with the machine I recommend getting as many silhouette cameo vinyl cutters as you can afford.   With this machine you can do most of the light stuff you can do on a laser cutter, plus vinyl cutters are very fast so you could handle up to 30 people per hour long workshop if you have enough machines.

Silhouette Cameo

Silhouette America - Silhouette America - My country

Silhouetteamerica		remove preview
Silhouette America - Silhouette America - My country To better serve you we request that you please choose your country of residence from the following list. Selecting your country helps us provide content relevant to your region and, in some countries, facilitates transactions in your local currency. View this on Silhouetteamerica >

For milling machines the Handi Bot is great, but if you are on a budget, or would like more than one machine these are very good as well:

Carvey nice because it is fully enclosed: Carvey®

Carvey: CNC Made Simple

YouTube		remove preview
Carvey: CNC Made Simple More info: makezine.com/2014/10/21/first-look-inventables-carvey/ Introducing Carvey: A CNC 2.5D carving mill intended for desktop use, offering quiet, clean and easy operation, from Inventables. Elizabeth Koprucki of Pumping Station One gets the inside scoop from Inventables' CEO Zach Kaplan. View this on YouTube >

Carbide 3D Shapeoko

Shapeoko 3 Promo Video

YouTube		remove preview
Shapeoko 3 Promo Video This is the 3rd official version of the Shapeoko desktop CNC machine. With over 3 years of user feedback, experience, and improvements ranging from easier assembly to better software options, this is the best Shapeoko we've ever made. Period. For me information, visit www.shapeoko.com Shoutout to Winston Moy for all the work he did putting this video together. View this on YouTube >

X-Carve Low cost!

The new X-Carve from Inventables

YouTube		remove preview
The new X-Carve from Inventables Take a tour of the new X-Carve! www.inventables.com/technologies/x-carve View this on YouTube >

Othermill Pro - Other Machine Co. I haven't used this machine hands on but I have heard it is pretty good and very small

------------------------------
Dan Meyer
Fab Lab Manager
Museum of Science & Industry
Chicago IL

Original Message:
Sent: 11-14-2016 04:54 PM
From: Meredith Doby
Subject: CNC Miller or Laser Cutter

Dear colleagues, 

Do you have a CNC miller and/or laser cutter in your institution? If yes do you find it useful? How, and for what do you use it? Which would you recommend for a medium sized children's museum? 

Any input is greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

Meredith

------------------------------
Meredith Doby
Exhibits Director
The DoSeum
San Antonio TX
------------------------------

Hi Meredith,

I'm in San Antonio and I don't know that any museum exhibits department has a CNC or laser cutter here. I'm wondering what you are thinking in terms of its use. Would this be just for fabrication or as part of a hands on exhibit in the museum? If it is just fabrication for exhibits that you are looking at you might have some luck talking to instructors who teach to trades at St. Phillip's College near Lackland AFB. They may be able to point you in the right direction as to specifics about the kind of machine and possible resources to suit your needs. They also have some classes there that you or your staff may be able to take as continuing education through Alamo College system.

Feel free to contact me if you have any questions. 

Best,

Suzanne McGarraugh

------------------------------
Suzanne McGarraugh
Exhibit Design Specialist
Mountmaking & Installation
San Antonio, TX

Original Message:
Sent: 11-23-2016 10:26 AM
From: Daniel Meyer
Subject: CNC Miller or Laser Cutter

Meredith,

All the machines everyone has suggested are great machines.  We have over 30 machines of various types in our museum fab lab and have been using them for over 7 years, here is what we have found we like or would switch to for high throughput hands on experiences in design and making for all ages in hour long workshops for 15 to 30 people (depending on staff available to help and number of machines we have).

We have learned for highest throughput (up to 15 people per hour) I highly recommend an epilog laser cutter or two of any size.  We have two and we can handle up to 30 people in a one hour workshop.  But this is pretty expensive.

Epilog Laser Engraving and Cutting Systems - Etching, Cutting and Marking Machines

Epiloglaser		remove preview
Epilog Laser Engraving and Cutting Systems - Etching, Cutting and Marking Machines Epilog Laser engraving equipment for etching, cutting, and marking systems - affordable, easy-to-use, and versatile. View this on Epiloglaser >

For lowest cost and a chance for each person to have hands on with the machine I recommend getting as many silhouette cameo vinyl cutters as you can afford.   With this machine you can do most of the light stuff you can do on a laser cutter, plus vinyl cutters are very fast so you could handle up to 30 people per hour long workshop if you have enough machines.

Silhouette Cameo

Silhouette America - Silhouette America - My country

Silhouetteamerica		remove preview
Silhouette America - Silhouette America - My country To better serve you we request that you please choose your country of residence from the following list. Selecting your country helps us provide content relevant to your region and, in some countries, facilitates transactions in your local currency. View this on Silhouetteamerica >

For milling machines the Handi Bot is great, but if you are on a budget, or would like more than one machine these are very good as well:

Carvey nice because it is fully enclosed: Carvey®

Carvey: CNC Made Simple

YouTube		remove preview
Carvey: CNC Made Simple More info: makezine.com/2014/10/21/first-look-inventables-carvey/ Introducing Carvey: A CNC 2.5D carving mill intended for desktop use, offering quiet, clean and easy operation, from Inventables. Elizabeth Koprucki of Pumping Station One gets the inside scoop from Inventables' CEO Zach Kaplan. View this on YouTube >

Carbide 3D Shapeoko

Shapeoko 3 Promo Video

YouTube		remove preview
Shapeoko 3 Promo Video This is the 3rd official version of the Shapeoko desktop CNC machine. With over 3 years of user feedback, experience, and improvements ranging from easier assembly to better software options, this is the best Shapeoko we've ever made. Period. For me information, visit www.shapeoko.com Shoutout to Winston Moy for all the work he did putting this video together. View this on YouTube >

X-Carve Low cost!

The new X-Carve from Inventables

YouTube		remove preview
The new X-Carve from Inventables Take a tour of the new X-Carve! www.inventables.com/technologies/x-carve View this on YouTube >

Othermill Pro - Other Machine Co. I haven't used this machine hands on but I have heard it is pretty good and very small

------------------------------
Dan Meyer
Fab Lab Manager
Museum of Science & Industry
Chicago IL

Original Message:
Sent: 11-14-2016 04:54 PM
From: Meredith Doby
Subject: CNC Miller or Laser Cutter

Dear colleagues, 

Do you have a CNC miller and/or laser cutter in your institution? If yes do you find it useful? How, and for what do you use it? Which would you recommend for a medium sized children's museum? 

Any input is greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

Meredith

------------------------------
Meredith Doby
Exhibits Director
The DoSeum
San Antonio TX
------------------------------

My previous post was for patron use of the machines, sorry about that.  Also some information on your budget and type and size of parts you want to fabricate would help narrow things down a bit.

If your fabricators want to get a CNC mill or laser cutter ask them which models they like and what kind of machine they want.  Buying a machine that your staff has picked out is the best way to get buy in and full use of the machine later.  Even if they don't know what machine they want now, make sure to include them in the machine selection process and have them make the final selection of the machine with your help.  If you are hiring a new fabricator to use the machine, hire them first and then have them help you select the machine.

Considering that your exhibit construction staff will  be using the machine for exhibit fabrication I'd recommend the following machines:

ShopBot Buddy if you have limited space

ShopBot Full Size PRSalpha CNC if you have the space and will be doing a lot of production.

These machines are great for fabricators that have never done CNC before.  Our exhibit techs and students use our ShopBot in our fab lab.  It takes time to setup a CNC router or milling machine however.

Keep in mind that these machines can route aluminum plate as well as wood, plastic and acrylic.

If you need to process smaller steel parts or a lot of metals a CNC machining center or mill would be a better choice.

A small laser cutter would be good too, if you don't have a need to fabricate big parts on it.  Laser cutters are very easy to use for first time users and experts alike and they take zero time to setup to get cutting.  They can process wood, acrylic, delrin, and some other sheet materials.

If you budget allows a shopbot and a laser cutter would be a great combo for a fabrication team.

------------------------------
Daniel Meyer
Fab Lab Manager
Museum of Science & Industry
Chicago IL

Original Message:
Sent: 11-14-2016 04:54 PM
From: Meredith Doby
Subject: CNC Miller or Laser Cutter

Dear colleagues, 

Do you have a CNC miller and/or laser cutter in your institution? If yes do you find it useful? How, and for what do you use it? Which would you recommend for a medium sized children's museum? 

Any input is greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

Meredith

------------------------------
Meredith Doby
Exhibits Director
The DoSeum
San Antonio TX
------------------------------