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National EMP Network is Fundraising for the month of October as part of the Death to Unpaid Internships Initiative

  • 1.  National EMP Network is Fundraising for the month of October as part of the Death to Unpaid Internships Initiative

    Posted 09-17-2021 09:36 PM

    From the National EMP Network:

    NEMPN presents Sweatober!

    Exercise your demons and pay interns! We are moving all October to raise money to stop unpaid internships in museums through our Death to Unpaid Internships initiative.

    Unpaid internships are unjust and inequitable. We demand better for the future of museums. This Sweatober, we are moving to put an end to it. National EMP Network's Death to Unpaid Internships initiative puts our words into action and we need your help. All funds will be used to fund internship stipends in 2022 and pilot our Dream Weavers intern coordinator program.

    You can learn more and join the fundraising effort here: Support Sweatober

    PledgeIt for Charities remove preview
    Support Sweatober
    Unpaid internships are unjust and inequitable. We demand better for the future of museums. This Sweatober, we are moving to put an end to it. National EMP Network's Death to Unpaid Internships initiative puts our words into action and we need your help.
    View this on PledgeIt for Charities >





  • 2.  RE: National EMP Network is Fundraising for the month of October as part of the Death to Unpaid Internships Initiative

    Posted 09-20-2021 11:32 AM
    First:  "exorcise;"
    2nd:  How are unpaid internships "inequitable" if everybody is making the same (0)?
    3rd:  The alternative to an unpaid internship is a lost opportunity for valuable experience.

    Life is a process of working to earn our way 'up,' thru sequentially improving levels.

    Joe Elliott, PhD
    Galveston, TX

    --




    Original Message


  • 3.  RE: National EMP Network is Fundraising for the month of October as part of the Death to Unpaid Internships Initiative

    Posted 09-20-2021 11:43 AM
    Edited by Sierra Van Ryck deGroot 09-20-2021 11:43 AM
    Hi Joe, 

    We disagree.

    Unpaid internships perpetuate inequity in the museum field, from gatekeeping museum careers from individuals who are unable to pay for unpaid internships (because believe it or not, for-credit internships do require payment for many schools) to keeping starting salaries low because of the lack of pay or incredibly low pay for interns and part-time staff.

    The privilege you are exhibiting by not comprehending the need to be paid for your labor, regardless of your title, is disappointing, but not surprising. 

    Just because you or I didn't get paid well or at all at the start of our museum careers, does not make it okay nor does it make it an acceptable practice to continue in this field or anywhere else. 



    ------------------------------
    Sierra Van Ryck deGroot
    Assistant Director of Education
    Poster House
    New York NY
    ------------------------------

    Original Message


  • 4.  RE: National EMP Network is Fundraising for the month of October as part of the Death to Unpaid Internships Initiative

    Posted 09-20-2021 12:01 PM
    Yes, I know you and many disagree.
    That's why I offered a rare voice of disagreement.
    Your ad hominem attack is disappointing, but not surprising.
    But you're correct:  I worked some unpaid internships early in my career.  They were beneficial, and would not have been available to me if the entities that granted me the opportunities had been influenced by a chorus of self-righteous crusaders. 
    I'm the one with the prerogative to comprehend that I profited in ways other than monetarily, not you.
    I'm sorry if you got short-changed at the start of your career. 

    --
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    Original Message


  • 5.  RE: National EMP Network is Fundraising for the month of October as part of the Death to Unpaid Internships Initiative

    Posted 09-20-2021 12:18 PM
    Hi Joe,
    The exercise vs. exorcise is a play on words as this is a fitness themed fundraising effort.
    Also, while there are endless resources out there discussing what is unjust about not paying people for their labor, here are some resources from AAM on the subject on unpaid internships in this field in particular: https://www.aam-us.org/programs/resource-library/resources-for-the-museum-industry-to-discuss-the-issue-of-unpaid-internships/

    ------------------------------
    Jesse Dutton-Kenny
    Museum Preparator
    SFO Museum
    San Francisco CA
    ------------------------------

    Original Message


  • 6.  RE: National EMP Network is Fundraising for the month of October as part of the Death to Unpaid Internships Initiative

    Posted 09-21-2021 08:33 AM
    Hi Joe,

    You asked how unpaid internships are inequitable if everyone is making the same. While it is true that everyone is making an equal amount, they are inequitable because not everyone can afford to spend their time for no monetary compensation. I personally remember during my undergrad years seeing friends take on unpaid internships and being confused about how they could manage to do that. The fact that I was working four part-time jobs while being a full-time student probably played a part in why I couldn't. It was later in life after my financial circumstances had changed that I was able to start getting museum experience and "working my way up." Without that financial support, I would never have made it into the field, even though many of the skills which have led me to where I am now came from that time juggling jobs. 

    You are right that currently the alternative to an unpaid internship is a lost opportunity for valuable experience. That and the fact that many people like younger me can't afford to work an unpaid internship mean that unpaid internships effectively provide opportunity to those that have the financial means to work without pay and they are lost opportunities for those without. That leads to a workplace, both at the museum and in the larger field, that has less diversity and is less effective at understanding the needs of a large portion of their potential audience.

    If a museum's purpose is to obtain labor for as low a cost as possible in the short term, then unpaid internships are a brilliant idea. However, by definition, an internship is supposed to be to the primary benefit of the intern and should not displace the work of paid employees. My personal hope is that internships can be available for people to help them get experience they might not otherwise have the chance to get. There are some great internships out there now, but the vast majority are not real opportunities for many people. Having been on both sides of the issue, I don't begrudge people who could afford the opportunity to work unpaid, but I do lament that many people cannot. The reliance on unpaid internships makes the field poorer as a whole.

    ------------------------------
    Timothy Rhue II
    Senior Informal Education Specialist
    Space Telescope Science Institute
    Baltimore MD
    He/Him/His
    ------------------------------

    Original Message


  • 7.  RE: National EMP Network is Fundraising for the month of October as part of the Death to Unpaid Internships Initiative

    Posted 09-20-2021 11:58 AM

    The alternative to an unpaid internship is a PAID internship.

     

    Diane Gutenkauf

    630-650-8425 (cell)
    dgutenkauf@hotmail.com
    Sent from Mail for Windows 10

     




    Original Message


  • 8.  RE: National EMP Network is Fundraising for the month of October as part of the Death to Unpaid Internships Initiative

    Posted 09-20-2021 12:44 PM

    I too profited in non-monetary ways from unpaid internships, but I would have liked to be able to pay rent as well. 

    Unpaid internships are inequitable because they limit "getting experience" to those who can afford to work for free.



    ------------------------------
    Kelsey Brow
    Executive Director
    King Manor Museum
    Jamaica NY
    ------------------------------

    Original Message


  • 9.  RE: National EMP Network is Fundraising for the month of October as part of the Death to Unpaid Internships Initiative

    Posted 09-20-2021 04:26 PM
    I am absolutely baffled that anyone would support the idea of people intentionally not being paid for their labor.

    ------------------------------
    Meredith Peruzzi
    National Deaf Life Museum
    Gallaudet University
    Washington DC
    ------------------------------

    Original Message


  • 10.  RE: National EMP Network is Fundraising for the month of October as part of the Death to Unpaid Internships Initiative

    Posted 09-21-2021 06:19 AM
    There's a whole cadre of unpaid museum workers not mentioned here - many of whom literally keep museums open: Volunteers. It's assumed that they're all retirees (not true), financially well-off (also not true) and doing it for selfish, social reasons (immensely not true). I've been both an intern at the start of my career, and a volunteer at the close, and I don't see a distinction in the value to the organization or to the person. But I do know that museums simply couldn't afford to exist if these were paid positions.


    ------------------------------
    John Wharton
    Docent
    Revs Institute
    Naples FL
    http://linkedin.com/in/john-wharton-9629149
    ------------------------------

    Original Message


  • 11.  RE: National EMP Network is Fundraising for the month of October as part of the Death to Unpaid Internships Initiative

    Posted 09-22-2021 10:57 AM

    I absolutely agree there are true volunteers in the field but there are also exploited ones, in my opinion. What I mean is this: We have volunteers who, even if we offered to pay them and formalize the relationship, would not be interested. They are happy with the flexibility and freedom of choosing to work when they want, do projects they are interested in, and support the (in our case) history community. Many are retired, but not all, and most do have alternative sources of income (which is not to say the are "well off" but they are able to support themselves). I myself am a true volunteer for a local botanical garden. I enjoy helping at events, etc. but I would not want to work there even if they offered.

     

    Exploited volunteers are those who are working with the hope that the experience will turn into a paid position at some point, with our organization or with another. They are being "paid" in experience that they hope to leverage into an actual job. They may love the work and value the experience, but their ultimate goal is to "put this on a resume" and be gainfully employed at some point. That is what makes the relationship exploitative, we have something they need rather than just something they want. It is not limited to students, either. We have had volunteers of all ages and backgrounds for whom employment was their goal and as soon as they found a job, in or out of the museum field, they stopped volunteering here.

     

    That is how I understand the situation, anyway. I, like many, have always just accepted the status quo in the humanities and only recent realized the distinction. My brother and sister who worked in engineering and accounting both had paid internships, but it was understood that in the humanities I would be paid in "experience." I was lucky enough to enjoy the privilege of being able to afford to do this through family support, but I recognize that many others are not, and the museum field is hobbling itself by keeping those individuals out. Finally, not to get into the weeds or start another tangent, but even with that privilege, that fact that I was not able to build a savings safety net or start substantially saving for retirement until I was 30 will have a long lasting impact on my working life, my potential dependence on public funds, how much I have contributed to the economy, etc.

     

    I know it will be a long and slow change, especially for smaller organizations with limited budgets, but once the mentality shifts and these line items become an expected part of any standard budget, the field as a whole can start becoming more inclusive and equitable for those who are looking to make the museum field their career, while still accepting the service of true volunteers who are not!

     

    Thanks for taking the time to read my perspective. I think it is great we have a forum to share and debate.

     

    emailMichelle Nash
    Curator of Collections
    Elkhart County Historical Museum
    Facebook28803-200

     

    "Museum collection storage is both a physical space and an ongoing process."- NPS

     




    Original Message


  • 12.  RE: National EMP Network is Fundraising for the month of October as part of the Death to Unpaid Internships Initiative

    Posted 09-21-2021 01:32 PM
    I agree with this. Unpaid internships are abusive. "I did unpaid internships (or got a masters degree) so what's the big deal you should too if you want into this profession"-- is hazing, not an endorsement for the experience's value for career entry.

    An adjunct to this effort might be "Death to the Proliferation of Museum Studies Grad Programs," which would drive up wages for everyone by eliminating a glut of applicants for every entry level position, including internships. When we've achieved that we can move on to "Death to the Idea you Need a Master's Degree to Manage a Collection or Museum Education Program."

    Sorry. I get ornery when an exhibit opening looms...

    db


    Dan Bartlett
    Curator of Exhibits
    Elmhurst History Museum
    (630) 833-1457 ext 6450





    Original Message


  • 13.  RE: National EMP Network is Fundraising for the month of October as part of the Death to Unpaid Internships Initiative

    Posted 09-23-2021 05:28 PM
    In the programs I have overseen for the past 25 plus years I have supported paid internships as only the privileged HS or college student can afford to put in the time for free. The upshot is those young people get the experience and the resume build-out that a working class or poor kid who needs to contribute to their family income or pay their own way through college cannot. I worked my way through college in a hodge-podge of jobs and it can make one less competitive on paper if the hiring manager doesn't see the transferable skills and instead goes for someone who has had 3 years of unpaid experience in the field through well-placed internships. It is one of the things that limits economic and racial diversity in museum staffing. That is what the posters mean by inequitable. I was lucky to have had a start at some less than traditional museums where the vision was wider.

    ------------------------------
    Lynda Kennedy PhD
    VP Education & Evaluation
    Intrepid Sea-Air-Space Museum
    New York NY
    ------------------------------

    Original Message


  • 14.  RE: National EMP Network is Fundraising for the month of October as part of the Death to Unpaid Internships Initiative

    Posted 09-21-2021 09:46 AM
    I am all for paying interns. But I do have a question. Is there a place where institutions can go to look for funding to pay interns? For a lot of small organizations, they just don't have the funds, even if they want to have interns and pay them.

    I think this is a key issue being missed by the movement for paid internships.

    ------------------------------
    Linda Endersby
    Registrar/Collections Mgr
    Museum of Art & Archaeology, University of Missouri - Columbia
    Columbia MO
    ------------------------------

    Original Message


  • 15.  RE: National EMP Network is Fundraising for the month of October as part of the Death to Unpaid Internships Initiative

    Posted 09-21-2021 09:54 AM
    Hi Linda, I'm thinking that there might be grants out there that can help museums provide paid internships. If there are not any now, there may be some in the near future if NEMPN is successful in their endeavor.

    ------------------------------
    Meghan Foster
    Museum Assistant
    ------------------------------

    Original Message


  • 16.  RE: National EMP Network is Fundraising for the month of October as part of the Death to Unpaid Internships Initiative

    Posted 09-22-2021 08:48 AM

    I too benefited from some unpaid internships at the start of my career, but I am not blind to the fact that I was privileged enough to have solidly upper-middle class parents support me and pay my tuition to do so. Most do not. (Not irrelevant that both of my parents went to prestigious schools that were only open to white students, and in my father's case white male students.)  I recognize that this situation has lead to a profession dominated by wealthy white people. We can, and must, do better.

    For those of you looking for funds for paid internships, there are many many project grants that will allow you to make them a budget line. Also, foundations, the usual wealthy families and corporations. Also contact local schools from High School through grad programs. Many times you can form an ongoing partnership that allows for reimbursement from the school that can be used to pay the intern. Not much, but enough so that the internship doesn't cost them money.

    For the person who equated volunteers with internships, they are two completely different position types (By law! https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/fact-sheets/71-flsa-internships) If your experience is that they are the same, you were not served well by your hosts in either instance. Interns, as someone else in this thread noted, the unpaid intern must be the primary beneficiary of the internship relationship. This is not true of volunteers.

    Note also that the link I shared says the following, "Unpaid internships for public sector and non-profit charitable organizations, where the intern volunteers without expectation of compensation, are generally permissible." "Generally permissible" is dong a lot of work here. The non-profit world is one lawsuit away from losing this exception. Abuse and lose it, folks.

    On a related note, I noticed that AAM is now including RFP's for contractors in their "Job Announcements" page and emails. Anyone else notice this? Anyone else troubled by this?

    High on the list of things that serve to exclude less privileged emerging professionals from the field is the proliferation of "contractor" positions that should be jobs. And not unrelated, misclassification of workers (exempt v. non-exempt, contractor v. staff, etc) is one of the major types of wage theft in the US. 

    Matthew White, PhD
    Museum Liaison
    Capitol Museum Services
    Opinions are mine alone.



    ------------------------------
    Matthew White PhD
    Museum Liaison
    Capitol Museum Services
    Manassas VA
    ------------------------------

    Original Message


  • 17.  RE: National EMP Network is Fundraising for the month of October as part of the Death to Unpaid Internships Initiative

    Posted 09-22-2021 03:22 PM
    For interns doing the work as part of a graduation requirement, I wonder if it is not incumbent on the university to support all or at least part of the internship?  It seems as if the higher education institutions of this country think that museums are great resources for free teaching resources that they do not actually have to pay for.  Harvard University is the only institution I know who pays a nominal amount to the museum providing the internship.  Thoughts?

    ------------------------------
    Valarie Kinkade
    Principal
    Museum and Collector Resource LLC
    Fort Lauderdale FL and
    Concord, MA
    ------------------------------

    Original Message


  • 18.  RE: National EMP Network is Fundraising for the month of October as part of the Death to Unpaid Internships Initiative

    Posted 09-23-2021 10:48 AM

    The concept of higher education supporting internships is a good question. We have worked with a wide variety of interns from graduate and undergraduate programs.

     

    West Chester University, PA – some departments have a fund that supports internships and in those cases, the students apply to the WCU program first before being interviewed by CCHC staff, who may or may not accept them. Interestingly, not all WCU interns come from the same department and therefore don't all have the same funding opportunity.

     

    Haverford College, PA – had a program (still?) of funded internships that were paid and involved an application process for both the museum to participate and the student to participate; this process concluded with a CCHC interview.

     

    Another institution (can't remember the name but not in PA) – had a paid internship program into which the students could be accepted before seeking an internship; they could ONLY apply to museums that did NOT pay interns. In other words, the students could not apply for internships at institutions that had an in-place paid internship program.

     

    Paid internships help to equalize the professional playing field (if they enable emerging professionals to eat). But when grant or other funding wasn't available at either end, we have always worked hard to ensure that students were getting course credit if possible and always have some sort of academic advisor in order to maximize what appears on resumes.

     

     

    Ellen E. Endslow

    Director of Collections/Curator

    Chester County History Center

    225 N. High Street

    West Chester, PA  19380

    610-692-4066 x257

     

    www.ChesterCoHistorical.org for details

     

    CCHC Linking past to present, to inspire the future. Engage... Preserve...

    Educate... Connect... Imagine...     

     




    Original Message


  • 19.  RE: National EMP Network is Fundraising for the month of October as part of the Death to Unpaid Internships Initiative

    Posted 09-23-2021 10:53 AM

    And to follow up on Valarie's comment more closely...

     

    We have been asked to do classes for museum studies courses, sometimes while the professor was out of town. The reimbursement we got was a student admission fee (paid by the school or the student depending on the department) of $5 per student.

     

    These behind-the-scenes tours of usually up to 2 hours and 4+ staff have been interesting. I've become (hopefully) wise over the years. I conclude with the comment that not everyone in the class will work in a museum or ever wanted to work in a museum. But they have some sort of interest in them. So my final dialogue is to ask what they can think of as ways to become museum advocates no matter what they do in life.

     

    Ellen E. Endslow

    Director of Collections/Curator

    Chester County History Center

    225 N. High Street

    West Chester, PA  19380

    610-692-4066 x257

     

    Visit the History Center website, Facebook and Instagram pages to schedule your visit!

     

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    CCHC Linking past to present, to inspire the future. Engage... Preserve...

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